Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 62
  1. #51
    Player Stamos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    61
    Character
    Stamos
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Any news on this? Our pet damage is extremely low compared to the other two pet jobs. I can live with very low white damage, but our weaponskills need a huge boost. The only time Automatons put out respectable damage is while using Overdrive. The Valoredge frame especially needs a considerable boost in damage. Our Automatons are doing 2-5k max, while Summoners are doing 15-99k damage, and BSTs can spam tp moves at a higher frequency and they do more damage.
    (1)

  2. #52
    Player xiozen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    San'doria
    Posts
    292
    Character
    Xiozan
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Stamos View Post
    Any news on this? Our pet damage is extremely low compared to the other two pet jobs. I can live with very low white damage, but our weaponskills need a huge boost. The only time Automatons put out respectable damage is while using Overdrive. The Valoredge frame especially needs a considerable boost in damage. Our Automatons are doing 2-5k max, while Summoners are doing 15-99k damage, and BSTs can spam tp moves at a higher frequency and they do more damage.
    While I most certainly wouldn't shake a stick at more damage; I cannot help but disagree with the comparisons being made... "Automatons are doing 2-5k max"... "Summoners are doing 15-99k damage"... "BSTs can spam tp moves at a higher purpose frequency and they do more damage"...

    I think it behooves us to analyze this request a bit more thoroughly... Puppetmasters (PUP) use an Automaton which is customizable... bst and smns pets are not. PUPs Automatons can reliably tank Notorious Monsters (NMs) (when proper attachments are in place)...NMs which bst and smns cannot reliably tank... PUPs can heal literally an entire party of PCs/Trust party members, where as a bst and smn pet cannot (at least to the same degree)... PUPs can rapidly and reliably skill chain not only with the Master but with any other party member performing a corresponding weaponskill to which their attachments allow for a skill chain reaction to be performed... smn and bst (although can do this to a certain extent, it is mostly the realm of the PUP)... PUPs can use regeneration of the automaton's hitpoints to reliably keep the automaton alive without the need to spam "oils".... bst and smns healing potential of their pet is extremely limited....

    The damage output associated with PUP is directly tied to that of the Master; as such, and in my opinion, I do not believe we are doing the job itself a service by comparing the damage output of BST and SMN to PUP in relation to the "amount of burst damage" both BSTs and SMNs generate with their pets at end game... compared to that of the PUP.

    I also believe that making such adjustments wouldn't benefit the job, as it would turn into the same type of "send in pet without master to perform burst weapon skill on enemy"...but considering the degree in which we would be able increase defense as well as hitpoint regeneration of our automatons, such scenarios would tend to be broken... Possible reason why BST was adjusted to have them be so "close to their pet" to heal them with a biscuit.

    Saying all of that... I do not believe the request as stated, is justified.
    (1)
    Last edited by xiozen; 03-02-2017 at 05:21 AM.

    {DISCLAIMER} Posts may contain opinions based on personal experiences that are not meant to be taken as facts. What may appear as fact with no source reference may be recollection of information with no source, and may be subject to scrutiny without source reference. Any debate may be considered conjecture of all parties in that debate. Player comments may not be the expressed position/consent of SE, their affiliates, or any employees of said organizations.

  3. #53
    Player Stamos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    61
    Character
    Stamos
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Think you are under estimating BST in terms of being able to tank. Just the situation has to be setup for them. They can easily tank in pet only situations. Not to mention, if we just went master to master in terms of raw DPS it isn't even close. BST destroys PUP.

    I do agree that PUP can be customized through attachments. However, it is mostly designed for the 75 era. There is no way a PUP can main heal on anything end game without a lot of support or there being basically only one person taking damage. The cool down on spells, plus the lack of curaga destroys that idea. With everything from SoA on being littered with multiple status effect TP moves.

    SMN's support ability is far greater through avatar favor, and aoe buffs. We're talking aoe haste IIs, 25% double attack for the party, and over 20% critical hit rate. PUP does none of this, pup generally just services the master due to the cool down in abilities and spells.


    As someone that has done pretty much every end game thing available, when you look at the difference in the damage between our job and the other pet jobs it isn't even close. Summoners out damage extremely well geared melee, and BSTs can keep up or at least hold their own. Bringing my PUP to said situations as a DD Automaton with the best pet gear. My damage is between .5 and 2% of the damage.

    As it stands right now, PUP's niche is really only as a tank. That's all.
    (2)

  4. #54
    Player Domille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    159
    Character
    Sylinath
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Stamos View Post
    Think you are under estimating BST in terms of being able to tank. Just the situation has to be setup for them. They can easily tank in pet only situations. Not to mention, if we just went master to master in terms of raw DPS it isn't even close. BST destroys PUP.
    BST is a DD PUP is a tank, this isn't uncommon. A WAR beats a PLD, so yeah. That's it's role.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stamos View Post
    I do agree that PUP can be customized through attachments. However, it is mostly designed for the 75 era. There is no way a PUP can main heal on anything end game without a lot of support or there being basically only one person taking damage. The cool down on spells, plus the lack of curaga destroys that idea. With everything from SoA on being littered with multiple status effect TP moves.
    This is true, the magic automation is (mostly) complete crap, a trust is better than the automaton. WHM RDM and BLM, it's just poorly designed. The mage AI needs a ton of reworking. But I think it might become highly overpowered if it were actually good so I don't know how they would do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stamos View Post
    As someone that has done pretty much every end game thing available, when you look at the difference in the damage between our job and the other pet jobs it isn't even close. Summoners out damage extremely well geared melee, and BSTs can keep up or at least hold their own. Bringing my PUP to said situations as a DD Automaton with the best pet gear. My damage is between .5 and 2% of the damage.

    As it stands right now, PUP's niche is really only as a tank. That's all.
    You say it like it's a bad thing. You forgot one word, BEST. A PUPs automaton is technically the absolute best tank. Situationally. Better than a RUN better than a PLD.

    SMN is extremely broken now, can't debate that, it's super broken. BST is in a "decent" position, but it's not something you're using unless it's a dedicated bstzerg. As just a dps bst is meh at best until you unleash.

    A job can't be good at everything, it totally ruins the balance. *cough BLU cough cough*

    All that being said, could damage use a boost? Yes! Even doubling it's str/att/mods it would still be weak, comparatively. Even if a new update gave +100 all stat like overdrive PUP wouldn't be "amazing".
    (0)
    Last edited by Domille; 03-02-2017 at 10:24 AM.

  5. #55
    Player Stamos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    61
    Character
    Stamos
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    You're looking at a very specific situation where PUP is the best tank. Where is something that doesn't doom your automaton, and does physical damage only. Plus, it has to be a singular mob. If there is adds it negates PUP tank benefit. Would take a well-geared RUN over a PUP 99% of the time. When all the frames are useless except the tank, it needs an overhaul.

    Automatons need a damage boost. Not like I am asking to do 99k dmg, but being able to do 8-20k would be nice. Instead of doing like 1-6k.
    (2)

  6. #56
    Player Songen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    327
    Character
    Horu
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    automaton can deal a fair bit of damage, there are attachments that affect "attack" and "ftp" directly, a WS that lowers enemy defence and can block certain defence up abilitys like cocoon if it lands. couple with auto's SC inundation attachment and you'll deal some massive damage if you play the job right. as a 1200jp pup myself, i have delt some decent damage in my time, i'v partyed with some pups that deal double/triple my damage. its all about how you gear it ,attach it,gift it( auto's gives are massive in terms of attack)and stratergise it.
    And thats without taking into account the master attacking as well, however thats a whole other story
    (0)

  7. #57
    Player Stamos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    61
    Character
    Stamos
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    I've been master PUP for a long while now, and not trying to be rude. What are you talking about? Even with capped pdif, geo fraility, attuner, tension spring IV the automaton does very awful damage on high level targets.

    The damage comparison when I did like 1% of the damage was with DDs and Summoners was just on Escha Zitah trash mobs for a round of Aeonics. It is even worse when it scales up in Reisen. Really just hoping for the damage to become respectable.
    (1)

  8. #58
    Player Traxus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    98
    Character
    Traxus
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Automaton damage is garbage outside of overdrive.
    (0)

  9. #59
    Player Ilian's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Off Earth
    Posts
    27
    Character
    Teuphist
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    For everyone:
    The automaton's niche in dps comes from skillchaining. Certainly with VE with Attuner/Flame Holder/Speedloader/Tension Spring.
    Adjust by removing Speedloader(s) or Inhibitor(s) when in groups spamming ws.

    Of course, everyone should know to get a gear set to boost VIT/att or STR/att (for Chimera Ripper).

    Wouldn't say it's lacking, but requires more adjusting than other jobs for competitive dps. Puppets would certainly be OP if we could pump out Avatar numbers and never have an ounce of concern because your puppet's -dt and regen trump dps from nearly every mob in the game.

    Has to be some sort of balance with that, yes?
    (0)

  10. #60
    Player
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    39
    I think giving the pet more dmg is silly. My friend plays Pup and he is doing incredible things with the job. We have him tank lots of high tier NMs effortlessly. Even seems to be resisting spells like Death for this Ambuscade and the damn this has like 4K hp and hardly loses hate. Even when I'm on Blu which is geared pretty well. When he uses his Ranger build he is doing massive SC dmg. He solos Apex mobs like nothing finishing them off super quickly with just a few SC's. The job as is right now seems incredible... So it's not doing dmg like Bst. Well big deal it plays differently. I'm a SMN and my pet dies when you fart by the damn thing. Our pets are ridiculously squishy. Now that's something that needs some looking into, but as for Pups atm, I think they're just fine. It tanks like a monster, and dps builds are pretty damn impressive. When my SMN MBs off his Pups SCs we rip through Apex mobs or a lot of NMs like nothing. Only thing I feel needs done to it is just some more control over its SC timing cause once in a while it will ruins our SCs when it tanks.
    (0)

Page 6 of 7 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6 7 LastLast