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  1. #21
    Player Malthar's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    674
    Character
    Malthar
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Hi Carbuncle,

    Bst has an A+ in axe (https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Combat_Skills).

    Before Ulth's attempts to derail, the original post requested sic/ready ability recast -5 on a shield.

    Oh, and if you see Draylo running around on Asura, give him a /poke for me. :-P
    (0)

  2. #22
    Player dasva's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,542
    Character
    Dasva
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    SAM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulth View Post
    You act like what I said was a new concept, but it's been going on for years. The only reason it stopped is that bst's pets didn't scale with ilvl. Now that pets have caught back up it's back to how it was. And my comparison isn't off at all. Rdm was designed with melee in mind. It's why it gets the fast cast trait, so it can spend less time casting, and more time attacking. It's why it has all those self target only spells that help with melee like temper and enspell. Much like the reason dnc didn't have an A in daggers rdm had ways of lowering their targets evasion and defense. Only now everyone can cap fast cast, buffs/debuffs are needed for any job to cap attack/accuracy, and to land debuffs other than dia rdm has to use a staff. So even though rdm was designed with melee in mind what it has become is a backline buff/debuff machine.

    And again, I'm not the one who derailed this. You said there were no good ilvl shields for bst. I agreed and expanded stating there aren't good ilvl shields period. Well there is one now, but only war will ever use it, and even then they will complain about how it takes SU2. But even pld the job that is synonymous with shields still use level 99 ones. Malthar is the one who turned this into a discussion about pigeonholing jobs. I personally believe that many jobs are flexible enough to fill many roles. My calling bst just a pet job was rhetorical, trying to point out the hypocrisy of him saying those other jobs can't melee. I even stated it in my conclusion of that post that I think bst should melee. Or did you even read that far, and just assumed I was anti-bst after the first line?
    Um outside of weird pet groups bsts have melee alongside there pt anytime they actually got into a pt until recently. A long time ago soloing yeah charm some IT and let it do your work for you. But that kind of went out the window around the time they raised the lvl cap and started giving us good jugs and notably snarl. Long long long before ilvl. And the main reason it is that way now isn't just that jugs are so strong but because of the tp loss of switching into charmers merlin and to a lesser extent the huge amounts of other pet augments that actually making using jugs viable and how much of a loss it is to your pet if you don't. If it wasn't for that bsts would be meleeing right next to their pets self skillchaining like crazy.... which is another thing giving the pets skillchain elements was clearly meant to be used with master which we should be taking advantage off especially with that new rdm support spell.

    Yes rdm has been given a few melee tools... they've also consistently kept them off of better DD gear, lower skill and on more mage gear/spells. It's clearly intended to be a support job that can do some light melee on easier stuff either solo or lowman content. Meanwhile SE has consistently put bst on either on heavy dd gear like drk, pld and war which get shields or on lighter DD gear like thf, blu, dnc which get dw. And since raising the lvl cap they've been pushing jugs as something to tank for the bst and together with master provide decent melee dmg. They've flat out called bst a melee DD and how it's dmg with jug should be close to other DDs. They only recently started giving pet stats. In short rdm was designed to support job that can sometimes melee bst was designed more like drg or pup as a melee that has a pet that helps out though in bsts case in a much more narrow fashion than drg or pup

    Also it's a bit of a hyperbole to say you have to switch to staff to land anything besides dia. Several swds and a dagger or 2 have 215 macc skill and one even goes to 228 with macc on it while rdm staffs only go up to 228. The difference is so little that except for mobs on a certain narrow band of meva you wouldn't notice much if any difference. Now sure if you mainhand one of the 188 macc skill swords there would be a bit of a difference though that would still again is still rather small (less than your spells can reduce) and so would only really make a huge difference on a small range of magic evasions which vary hugely between mobs so even on ilvl content you can find yourself floored hit rates on one no matter what and others you have capped hit rate even with magian staffs.

    I'm sorry but in a discussion about shields for bst when you respond to a statement of bst is the only melee that doesn't get native dual wield or good shields saying but what about cor, rdm etc implying they are melees and should also get melee shields is a derail. And that was said before anything about Malth and pigeonholing. So please take your rdm should get good melee shields to the rdm forums please

    Anyways I'm fairly certain I will use blurred shield on pld as well. Based on it's stats it should be comparable in overall dmg reduction to ochain with reprisal up. So anything I don't need to block everything or aegis and I want to do more dmg I'd try that at least for fun. Though that brings up another point that I haven't gone over yet. Bst is on a lot of heavy dd gear that goes to jobs on that shield so really why not put bst on that shield too? That would actually pretty good shield for a bst meleeing along with his pet enough possibly to be better the current not engaged swapping out non ilvl axes

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulth View Post
    Besides I have contributed plenty to the original topic. A shield won't fix it. It needs to be capped before they add anymore gear that reduces ready cooldown. Otherwise you just end up with a thief's knife like problem.
    It's already been pointed out why that wouldn't be a problem and why that is specifically why he is asking for a shield and not another axe with it because shield fixes that problem.
    (2)
    Last edited by dasva; 06-13-2015 at 07:14 AM.

  3. #23
    Player Karbuncle's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    4,314
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthar View Post
    Hi Carbuncle,

    Bst has an A+ in axe (https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Combat_Skills).

    Before Ulth's attempts to derail, the original post requested sic/ready ability recast -5 on a shield.

    Oh, and if you see Draylo running around on Asura, give him a /poke for me. :-P
    I was speaking on when the job was released. I Could have sworn BST had an A- Axe similar to THF and Dagger, and it was changed to A+ later (like in Seekers)? I guess that could have just been THF alone ._.
    (1)

  4. #24
    Player Malthar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    674
    Character
    Malthar
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    You are correct. Bst indeed did have a lower axe rating, but it was bumped up to A+ around the time of the weaponskill updates.
    (0)

  5. #25
    Player Malthar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    674
    Character
    Malthar
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Hi SE,

    I'm kinda disappointed not to see a sic/ready ability recast -5 shield in the update. :-(
    (0)

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthar View Post
    The problem with introducing an iLvl axe with sic/ready ability recast -5 is that it will be used as the main hand axe and the Charmer's Merlin as the offhand axe giving the user sic/ready ability recast of 5 seconds. To my knowledge, there is no mechanism that prevents an axe from being main hand.

    A shield is much more eloquent and opens up possibilities with fencer traits augmented to it, just like the Charmer's Merlin.
    no but there IS a mechanism for killing any benefits from the off-hand weapon which would restrict you to a single buffing axe. believe me, the number of threads bitching about the lack of off-hand benefits is quite extensive. in fact, that's one of the 1st questions with any newly introduced weapon, does its benefit work from the off-hand?
    (0)

  7. #27
    Player Malthar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    674
    Character
    Malthar
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Can we have a response from the devs about said proposed shield for bst?
    (2)

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