Please give old content some love!

[Ulth]

RoE quests aren't going to make people up and do old events again though. People will just do it once then be done with it. They added the capacity thing to the reives RoE quests and I did them, but I have yet to go into inner court to knock down reives since. Some of the old content you mentioned people still do though. I know at the end of the login campaign when I try for defending ring, there is an actual line of players waiting to pop Behemoths. Genbu seals are used for augmenting the best shield for cures. Susaku is the best source of Siren's Hair in the game. I did a lot of BCNMs during the campaign because of all the additional drops. A RoV KI that lowers the cost of orbs wouldn't hurt though. Chocobos do need some love. They could remove the cap so player raised chocobos can be at least as good as rented ones, or maybe even better. I know their speed can't go any faster, but they could make them last longer and dig better then rented ones. Also a whistle that had unlimited uses like the warp ring would be handy.

[Pooty]

Second: SE only needs to use the PS2 devkits for playstation updates. They can continue releasing PC updates as much as they please. The entire reason they already have cut PS2 support is there are no more Devkits.

PC updates are done on their computers though, the devkit is used to port the update to PS2.

Actually, the PS2 development kits are used to develop the game itself. The PC version is ported from the PlayStation 2 version, not the other way around.

[Krishnaya]

I've talked with lots of people in the game about this and the old leveling systems/options need a boost. The new xp systems and expansions CAN COEXIST with the old ways if some simple issues are addressed. I think there's really simple options for how to achieve this. Urat mentioned simply removing the XP penalty for full 6 person parties. Easy and effective!

I have another way I would find more satisfying. That is simply make a huge bonus for any party that has no trusts or NPC's! Make a bonus for doing this vs Incredibly Tough mobs that way if I can (and I can) get 6 friends together to have actual skill based parties again, we'll level up at a rate comparable to the noob easy mode ways people are currently leveling up with. You could remove the XP penalty as Urat suggested AND add a bonus for killing IT mobs with no trusts/npc's. At least 1k bonus for every IT mob killed. I think that would make the old parties viable again.

I understand what billy and other's have said in this thread. I understand there's A LOT that goes with new content and people expectations etc. It's just that it isn't necessary to ruin the old ways of leveling to introduce the new ones.

Lots of MMO's do this and it's ok. I'm not a hater. I love SE and FFXI. SE/FFXI could be completely revolutionary tho by being the only game to not have ruined all the original fun of a MMO through the introduction of good end game content. Well they've already ruined it (no offense) but they'd still be revolutionary for going back and bringing life back to the original party systems. I have faith in the intelligence of SE so it's confusing why they can't just do this to breathe life into the original content and leveling systems.

As far as I can tell a lot of that could be done with simple algorithm/xp factor boosts.

BUT PLEASE: Let's not talk about nerfing. Lots of time people start using the N word when they aren't happy. Let's NOT nerf the new stuff. I don't want to p*ss people off at all.

Am I the only one that sees this as a super simple fix for a super big "issue" in the game?

Add a bonus that will make people want to have lvl 10 dunes parties vs VT and IT mobs again, and qufim, kazam, crawlers nest, cape terigan, and the other places that i can't remember the names. The old school parties fighting IT mobs and needing to bring their A game could come back with out messing up the new awesome updates. With level sync it would be easy to get people in 6 person parties vs IT mobs again if all the xp factors were adjusted or boosted some how.

I've been saying this for years. Quit playing FFXI after playing it (with two paid accounts active) for 9 years because the old stuff is ruined. I have one active account now and am playing again. I'm not giving up on the new or hating on it this time, but it really could easily be adjusted and it would increase the lifespan of the game, and longevity of each individual players commitment to FFXI and SE.

Thanks to anyone who reads this, thanks to the OP, and to everyone who replied/replies.

EDIT: Well considering my friends are getting (as we speak) 6k xp PER KILL (!!!) in marjami, maybe we'd need more than a 1k bonus to IT mob kills with no trust! A little yellow text could flash when u kill an IT mob, or it could happen on VT/IT chains. Maybe 1k bonus to the first vt/it mob, then 1.5k for the chain 1, all the way up to 6k bonus for chain 6+?

PLEASE!

[Catmato]

EDIT: Well considering my friends are getting (as we speak) 6k xp PER KILL (!!!) in marjami, maybe we'd need more than a 1k bonus to IT mob kills with no trust! A little yellow text could flash when u kill an IT mob, or it could happen on VT/IT chains. Maybe 1k bonus to the first vt/it mob, then 1.5k for the chain 1, all the way up to 6k bonus for chain 6+?

With that kind of exp, you'd be out of the dunes in a few minutes. I'm all for incentivizing old-style exp parties, but more exp isn't the way to do it.

[Krishnaya]

then what is the way to do it? Urat was productive, and I'm productive/constructive in any criticism we give, but u give no alternate in ur post. I only point this out because I'm interested in what you say is "the way to do it". k Really... please tell me... what is the way to do it if not more XP? I'd rather smash thru dunes lvl 10-20 in 4-8 hours fighting IT mobs than doing some noob no skill WOW way of levelling.... What's ur way?

Dunes was just one, earliest ever, part of it. The subject matter I'm speaking of includes all the old lvling spots from lvl 10-75, not just dunes. We can talk about dunes all day if u want. I'm down. Dunes is part of it and is also remediable tho its so extremely 2003. That makes it a great example of what we're talking about tho imho, but let's just not get confused and think that dunes is the whole subject matter. It's all the OG gameplay that used to happen to get from lvl 10-75 that's missing. I can see why the new updates make sense for the awesome FFXI end game and how they give life and longevity to the game. The new updates are genius! GENIUS! In fact if someone tried to counter those updates by implementing any kind of nerf it could be catastrophic for the current playerbase and thus FFXI itself. That's not necessary tho, both can be viable/coexist. It's good that there's other options to level and level quick if u want. For the longevity of FFXI that's good. But, adding options for the earlier expansions and gameplay to remain viable will add additional longevity to FFXI as well. Win/Win! Why win/loose when u can just as easy win/win?

I've mentioned previously that I think there's actually many possible ways to address this issue because it's kind of, more or less, a tiny code/algorith/xp boost update to fix. Easy fix. There's many ways it could happen. I mentioned the best one I thought of (subjectively as it is and as objective as I can be) and I also gave props to Urat for mentioning another possible solution. Perhaps the fact that there's so many easy solutions to the problem has over complicated it to the widely variegated team of devs?

I'm glad others are at least finally recognizing the issue that some of us are trying to talk about. What's the best solution???

Thanks

EDIT: What is the way to reward skill based parties with out too much AI help (trusts and NPC followers specifically), and keep the new players happy and NOT nerf the new ways??

I INSIST it's possible to keep the new stuff 100% intact/not discourage or push away new players AND breathe life into the older SKILL based play styles. I'm open to other ideas of how to do it though because there's many ways.

EDIT#2: You are right... Dunes PT's would end quick if my simple one second solution (it really is that easy tho) was implemented with out any kind of scaling or area/level considerations. But there's 2 quick responses I can give to that...

1 is that even a simple solution adds viable options again. If a level/etc. based mathematical consideration wasn't made per each area, then yes dunes would go quick... But would lvl 10-20 go quicker than it goes now? I think not. And it would slow down after dunes (qufim, kazam, nest, and so on). Hey maybe the fact it wouldn't do that much is good. It won't interfere with the new updates. By the time u did get to qufim, kazam, and nest tho, the leveling could slow down.

2 is that well it could scale if an extra day of thought/programming was put into finding ways to make 10-75 have viable OG leveling options similar to the speed (but preferably a little slower still) of new areas/styles.

There's so many ideas of how fast dunes/qufim/nest/ETC!!! should go, but there's also lots of ways to make it comparable to the new things.

My opinion is at dunes lvl 10-20 should take 12-20 hours with a good skill based party fighting IT mobs. If u disagree... Thats totally ok. Dunes is just a small part anyways. Just say ur opinion of how things could be adjusted. Any good adjustment made with this basic principle in mind will be a benefit to the players and devs of FFXI equally. A team of people thinking about this could come up with a great idea, but any thoughtful (i mean to say smart) person can by him/herself come up with a very good idea. Either way (a good or great idea) is better than no idea.

I want some kind of adjustment but i'm open to so many different possible ways it could happen.

[Krishnaya]

double post sorry

[Catmato]

If I had a good solution, I would have posted it. Instead, I'll just post anything that comes to mind.

In a 6-man exp party with no trusts:
Have a RoE that rewards Copper Vouchers
Give extra Conquest Points
Give free Accolades
Give free Sparks
Give free Tabs
Reward with Gil
Mobs drop more Seals
Mobs drop Dynamis currency
A Water Spirit comes to help you
Mobs drop Alexandrite
Mobs drop Plutons/Beitetsu/Boulders
Mobs drop HP Bayld
Princess Claidie dances for you in a bikini
Your fame goes up in that region
Lowers BSTs Ready cooldown to 5 seconds
Always have 3000 tp
Every mob killed makes Besieged start 1 minute earlier
SE continues console support until 2048
Free beer delivered to your house
Your other jobs delevel so you have something else to sync to
NMs spawn in place of exp mobs
Everyone on your blacklist gets banned
50 DKP-
Crafting skills randomly go up
Infinite ammo
Zeid dances for you in a bikini
Mobs drop relics
Mobs steal your relics
Augments are applied to the gear you're wearing
Can use Blue Magic on any job
Your flowers don't wilt
More Monstrosity monsters will be released


I think I'm about out of ideas.

[Kensagaku]

I get what you're asking for Krish, but if we're getting 6k EXP/kill when chained (and chains frequently went to 3-6 unless you had to rest MP or someone died), you'd be out of the dunes in less than an hour, and the other places equally so. There's really not much difference from a full Trust party and a full normal player party now when it comes to leveling, except for the fact you can pick and choose your jobs instead of shouting/arguing for hours about finding a paladin, bard, and white mage until someone has to leave and the whole party falls apart. Well, that and the fact that people are (generally, with exceptions) smarter than the AI of Trusts. You could party up with a Trust group, and they gain skills and learn abilities at the same rate as any other player. Really aside from the lack of conversations there's not a lot of difference, but that's what a linkshell is for, whether it's social or endgame or whatever.

As an example I leveled my mule's RDM "the hard way," because it was a way to kill time and it was rather enjoyable to do so. I hit up a bunch of different camps going from the dunes to Sea Serpent Grotto's entrance to Crawler's Nest by the big drop-down room to The Boyhada Tree. But to me this was a lot better than the times of old party leveling, where you'd spend three hours waiting for someone who wanted to play PLD or NIN or RDM or BRD, and then by then your party has reshuffled itself five times over. By the time you got to camp someone else was already having to leave, forcing you to restart again, etc... and this was back when EXP was in its heyday!

Now you can literally just get up and go where you choose to. Does it have to be solo+trusts? No, bring a friend, or three! EXP, even with friends to "lower the EXP gain," is still faster than it used to be back then, and if you're arguing for old-school leveling and 10+ hours in the dunes, then nothing really needs to change. But the way you make the argument sound is that you still want to race up to the 99 cap, rather than enjoying the old leveling process, if the "I want to hit up to 6k EXP like in Adoulin areas" argument is any indication. If you want to slow down and enjoy the moment of old-school leveling, then do so, and don't be in such a hurry to get to 99.

[RalphTheGalka]

Without a way to forcibly cap your level, old-school xp parties are dead and not coming back. I took a trip last night on a level 1 character, loaded up on a few weapons and called out my trusts. I started at Sandora and worked my way to the dunes. Just by killing random mobs along the way I had outlevelled the dunes before I had even gotten to the crag. I was getting between 600 and almost 2k per kill solo (no xp ring), it didn't take me long to outlevel an area solo. I was close to level 40 by the time I walked into Jeuno.

[Urat]

I speak from this perspective as someone who just grinded Bst 1-99 with his GF, and we did it the semi oldschool way.

Ronfaure -> Dunes -> Qufim -> Yuhtungha -> Yhoater -> etc

We used 4 trusts + us 2 + 2 pets, and we cleared content pretty quick. Despite what you think, past lv 50 it slowed down to a nice comfy pace, where levels took about 5 kills each. By level 80 it was taking a notable amount of time per level, but at this point we had beastmaster down pat and were killing very fast.

The issue was thus:

We got better exp solo with 5 trusts out than as a 2 man team with 4 trusts. No matter how hard we tried, the fact that trusts didnt use up exp meant splitting up and soloing with trusts resulted in us having 14 bodies killing instead of 8.

The solution is very very simple.

Being in a party doesnt reduce exp. Instead, you get a 5% exp bonus for every party member you have that is a PC that is the same level as you or lower.

Done. 25% exp bonus if you have a full party, but leachers cannot get the exp bonus. This promotes level synch (which makes everyone the same level so you all get the 25% bonus) and makes leachers fall farther and farther behind.

#2: Inflict a severe exp penalty on players in the following circumstances:

-Being below level 70 in Abyssea (-90% penalty)
-Being less than 10 levels below the level of the monster killed (-90% exp penalty)
-Being less than 10 levels below the recommend level of a Grounds of Valor or Fields of Valor quest (-95% penalty)
-Being less than level 75 and turning in an Adoulin Coalition Imprimatur (-90% penalty)

As it stands, extreme power levelling is infinitely faster than normal levelling of any kind and, most importantly, enables cheaters, botters, and the few RMT that exist, to grind themselves back up to level whatever in an hour.