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  1. #31
    Player Gwydion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    334
    Character
    Brutalhammer
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Sicycre View Post
    Hi, everyone!

    As the Fencer trait has the ability to boost damage, and there are those that are currently using it for this purpose, changing or removing it would lead to a negative experience for those users.
    As such, we do not have any plans for adjustments to it at this time.

    In addition to that, in terms of adjustments for beastmaster, we're not currently looking into boosting their damage any further at the moment.

    That said, we will continue to look into your feedback regarding beastmaster so please be sure to keep it coming!
    This response is so disappointing. I see that one person in this thread uses a shield in Dynamis content, which is no different than using a dagger, which someone is entitled to do for low level content.

    However, I purposefully worded my original post in the hopes that my premise would be acknowledged. The premise here is that Beastmasters do not rely on shields (at least for iLvl content) any more than they rely on lesser weapons like Daggers, Swords or Staves. To say that users who choose to use shields need to be considerable here is like arguing that the introduction of Aeonic Axes unfairly disrupts the gameplay of Beastmasters who use Daggers and Swords.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post
    I just saw that BST Gifts Job Points @ 500 = Fencer effect bonus.

    Beastmasters don't use Fencer and in fact, dual wield 100% of the time.
    I even gave an alternative suggestion if you wanted allow Fencer to persist, that it's use has some obvious shortcomings, like our current shield cap of 300:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post
    Alternatively, if you want to keep Fencer on BST...can you give us a higher cap of Shield skill than 300?

    Either way, it seems unnecessarily weak.
    I even started this post, assuming defeat, and explicitly stated that if you insist on making 1-handed weapons + shields a viable option, could you possibly give us a shield geared towards Beastmasters. We currently have no shields that enhances or aguments the unique abilities or characteristics of the Beastmaster or his/her pet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post
    If you insist on BST main-hand 1 weapon + shield, can have a better BST shield? Perhaps with Ready/Sic recast -10? .....or even Ochain?
    I even asked for Ochain, as a throwaway suggestion, but just to highlight how utterly unprotected we are when forced to be within 7 yalms at current level cotent.

    As a software engineer by trade, I understand the lack of development resources for a product that has been in existence for 15 years, but my original request, to increase shield skill cap from 300 and/or to add 1 single shield to make Fencer a viable bonus, could not take more than 1-2 hours of development time and 1-2 hours of regression testing.

    My hopes and standards here are remarkably low and I thought that by asking for the most modest of changes, we could gain some traction for Beastmasters as whole. The shield cap could be raised and a new shield (using an existing model) could simply be purchased from an NPC.

    However, this is the part that as a paying customer hurts the most. I'm happy to continue to post and leave feedback, but I'm afraid that some of my initial points, have been overlooked, perhaps inadvertently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sicycre View Post
    Hi, everyone!
    That said, we will continue to look into your feedback regarding beastmaster so please be sure to keep it coming!
    Sicycre,
    I'd like to welcome you to the forums but I humbly ask if you could you possibly take another look at this thread or perhaps bring some of the current shortcomings of Beastmaster and Fencer/shields in-practice, to the development team?

    Thank you for your time and consideration.
    (3)

  2. #32
    Player Urmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    447
    Character
    Urmom
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    GEO Lv 99
    Want a bst to use fencer to DD well? Jack our fencer amounts to what war is at and give us access to literally the only shield with fencer on it that jobs without fencer get to use ie Blurred Shield +1
    (0)

  3. #33
    Player Jeanfi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3
    Character
    Jeanfi
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Yes and give war ability to charm!
    (0)

  4. #34
    Player Jile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    389
    Character
    Jile
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanfi View Post
    Yes and give war ability to charm!
    Sounds good, done. BST has not used charm in so many years we could care less if it's taken away.
    (1)

  5. #35
    Player Urmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    447
    Character
    Urmom
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    GEO Lv 99
    Wait we still have charm?
    (2)

  6. #36
    Player Nyarlko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    1,523
    Character
    Nyarlko
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    BST: Charm is effectively useless in all 99+ content (at least as far as I can tell.) Everything is flat-out immune to it in all event/instanced content and the downsides to using a wild pet versus a jug pet are undeniable to the point that even if there were charmable targets available, it would be a poor choice to do so.

    On the subject of Fencer.. Even if there are a few BST out there who may include it in their playstyle, the userbase as a whole does not seem to.
    As a BST, I feel hardlocked into using /NIN or /DNC solely for Dual Wield and would be dancing with joy in my living room if Fencer gifts were converted to DW (even just a single tier of Fencer>DW conversion) because it would open up the possibility of using other subjobs which allows for more viable playstyles in more content/situations.

    The argument that Fencer boosts damage output is flawed. I'm relatively certain that the increase in personal DPS from fully utilizing Fencer (which would also require several additional full equipment sets beyond what most multi-job BSTs have available) would not be enough to make up for the 33% loss of Ready damage that giving up access to an offhand Charmer's Merlin alone would cause. That is not taking into account whether or not the master is actually capable of matching the combat numbers put up by a pet focused gearset/playstyle. I change /equipset (including weapons) twice every time I hit my Ready macro, then a third time to go back to pet TP set after it's done. Unless something goes horribly wrong, I should actually never have enough personal TP to actually WS anyway due to my TP constantly resetting to 0.

    I honestly don't use an offhand weapon to smack things, I use one for the additional stats it gives my pet.
    Losing access to pet.acc&atk+30/pet.TPbonus/ready-5sec/etc hurts far more than Fencer is capable of making up for. Please do take into account that the vast majority of JSE provides little benefit to master damage output and that BST has zero JA that impact meleeing. BST meleeing is literally: Auto-attack > WS > repeat. BST melee can't really be called "fun" in any way and will give worse results than any other comparatively geared melee job. If I want to smack things myself instead of ordering my pet to, I'll switch to a different job whose focus is indeed to smack things. I'm 99% sure that if I just had the urge to whack something with a single 1h axe, my under-geared WAR would put up better numbers than BST doing the same thing, plus it has actual combat related JAs.

    If there is an absolute insistence on the Dev's part that Fencer is the way to go, then perhaps it's time to bake the effects of the Merlin into the baseline job along with capping Ready recast to a minimum of 10sec. Main-handing it is not an option due to pet level being tied to our mainhand ilvl. The simplest option I can suggest for implementation would be to increase the effect of the Sic/Ready merit category. I imagine it shouldn't be amazingly difficult to change "1" to "2", but I have no idea how hard it would be dev-wise to implement a lower boundary cap to 10sec.
    (7)
    Last edited by Nyarlko; 06-29-2016 at 04:45 PM.

  7. #37
    Player Gwydion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    334
    Character
    Brutalhammer
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post
    This response is so disappointing. I see that one person in this thread uses a shield in Dynamis content, which is no different than using a dagger, which someone is entitled to do for low level content.

    However, I purposefully worded my original post in the hopes that my premise would be acknowledged. The premise here is that Beastmasters do not rely on shields (at least for iLvl content) any more than they rely on lesser weapons like Daggers, Swords or Staves. To say that users who choose to use shields need to be considerable here is like arguing that the introduction of Aeonic Axes unfairly disrupts the gameplay of Beastmasters who use Daggers and Swords.



    I even gave an alternative suggestion if you wanted allow Fencer to persist, that it's use has some obvious shortcomings, like our current shield cap of 300:



    I even started this post, assuming defeat, and explicitly stated that if you insist on making 1-handed weapons + shields a viable option, could you possibly give us a shield geared towards Beastmasters. We currently have no shields that enhances or aguments the unique abilities or characteristics of the Beastmaster or his/her pet.



    I even asked for Ochain, as a throwaway suggestion, but just to highlight how utterly unprotected we are when forced to be within 7 yalms at current level cotent.

    As a software engineer by trade, I understand the lack of development resources for a product that has been in existence for 15 years, but my original request, to increase shield skill cap from 300 and/or to add 1 single shield to make Fencer a viable bonus, could not take more than 1-2 hours of development time and 1-2 hours of regression testing.

    My hopes and standards here are remarkably low and I thought that by asking for the most modest of changes, we could gain some traction for Beastmasters as whole. The shield cap could be raised and a new shield (using an existing model) could simply be purchased from an NPC.

    However, this is the part that as a paying customer hurts the most. I'm happy to continue to post and leave feedback, but I'm afraid that some of my initial points, have been overlooked, perhaps inadvertently.



    Sicycre,
    I'd like to welcome you to the forums but I humbly ask if you could you possibly take another look at this thread or perhaps bring some of the current shortcomings of Beastmaster and Fencer/shields in-practice, to the development team?

    Thank you for your time and consideration.
    No reply to this thread in 4 months. It's been 1 year since the 7 yalm distance restriction. It is so unfair to change Beastmaster so drastically after 13 years. What's a Beastmaster to do?
    (1)

  8. #38
    Player Urmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    447
    Character
    Urmom
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    GEO Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Gwydion View Post
    No reply to this thread in 4 months. It's been 1 year since the 7 yalm distance restriction. It is so unfair to change Beastmaster so drastically after 13 years. What's a Beastmaster to do?
    Take all their taeon gear and put it on pup apparently lol
    (2)

  9. #39
    Player
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    39
    Honestly if SE would up the shield skill for more jobs that can use a shield such as War,Bst,Rdm I feel like we'd be able to use these jobs to fill in some extra rolls. It still bothers me that War can't really be a effective second option tank. I gotta jump through all these flaming hoops with War to do the most minor or tanking and still I get my arse handed to me dmg wise. Lot's of -Dmg gear, lots of JP's,a few extra +chances to block pieces, and a good shield and still I need cure bombed like crazy for basic UNMs and some Apexs. I feel like in this time in XIs life we should make certain jobs fill in more roles for accessibility with in the community. Not asking to make anything "easier" just more options to approach a battle.
    (0)

  10. #40
    Player Xilk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    677
    Character
    Xilkk
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    NECRO BUMP!!

    I charmed an Apex Bat in Ra'kaznar Inner court to have it fight other stuff... its incredibly slow and boring. then the mobs have over 150k hp it takes a LONG time. and charmed mob damage really sux. Only bonus is that your pet can have a HUGE hp pool also.

    I do miss the fun utility of charm :P
    (0)
    Choh Moui | Rongo-Nango | Lhu Mhakaracca | Lungo-Nango | Nyumomo
    --Beastmaster Forever--

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