March update and enmity

[Dale]

in a suprise twist.

emnity cap is increasing
enmity from damage is decreasing

Enmity from damage decreasing will help.

Will it help enough to make tanks wearing full mitigation gear compete for enmity against those wearing full damage gear? We'll see. I hope it does.

[Dale]

Enmity cap is PART of the problem, not the whole problem. .

Fine.

Let me say they are not the main problem then. They may contribute to some small and lesser degree. Which is why if you saw them just raise the enmity caps without addressing the enmity gap between offensive and defensive players nothing would change and the same problem would persist. Regardless that you think offense is irrelevant: I am telling you it isn't. Because the enmity generated from offense was the reason tanks wearing mitigation gear could not compete for threat.

Put a Paladin in full damage gear on a fight where mitigation is not necessary and he or she will tank just fine so long as the other party members do not play recklessly. It would not matter if the entire group was at the dreaded enmity cap or not. You can go test that out for yourself with a Paladin friend of yours if you do not believe me.

The problem is and has been mitigation gear and how it gimps the tank's offense and renders them impotent offensively when compared to others. This is also why this is only a real issue on fights where mitigation gear is a factor. I can tank lower tier fights all day long without any issue with competent damage dealers so long as I do not have to turn my Paladin into a wet noodle with tons of -damage crap. If enmity caps were truly the cause: then that would not be the case.

To put it simply: characters geared to do damage create way more enmity than characters geared to mitigate damage. This change may help fix that.

[Roja323]

Honestly the biggest issue is the cap is low, DD reach it quickly, and then have no way to get rid of it.

Lowering enmity from damage will only delay the same outcome. Eventually you will get to a point where everyone is capped, and then we are at the same place as before.

We either need a way for tanks to absorb enmity from the party
Enmity from damage to be insanely low
Or more dd need a way to constantly douse their enmity,

Thf have trick attack (have it transfer % of current enmity as well)
rng has decoy shot (decrease reuse 3 min so it can be kept up and make current enmity decay faster)
drk - Add a huge -enmity affect to dread spikes
mnk - Give monks feign death (plays dead for 1-2 seconds and drops x % of enmity, 60s reuse)
drg has high jump (drops 50% enmity every 120 seconds-> lower to 30s reuse)
Pup can ventriloquy

The abilities are there, they just need to be tweaked to make more sense in modern combat. Pup is the only that can really control their hate 100%. And most people wont even bring one and their combined dmg with master + pet is > mnk. Honestly the only DD that shouldn't be able to lower their enmity is SAM, if they are gonna be king of dd they should have no way to lower their enmity.

[Dale]

Honestly the biggest issue is the cap is low, DD reach it quickly, and then have no way to get rid of it.

Lowering enmity from damage will only delay the same outcome. Eventually you will get to a point where everyone is capped, and then we are at the same place as before.

We either need a way for tanks to absorb enmity from the party
Enmity from damage to be insanely low
Or more dd need a way to constantly douse their enmity,

Thf have trick attack (have it transfer % of current enmity as well)
rng has decoy shot (decrease reuse 3 min so it can be kept up and make current enmity decay faster)
drk - Add a huge -enmity affect to dread spikes
mnk - Give monks feign death (plays dead for 1-2 seconds and drops x % of enmity, 60s reuse)
drg has high jump (drops 50% enmity every 120 seconds-> lower to 30s reuse)
Pup can ventriloquy

The abilities are there, they just need to be tweaked to make more sense in modern combat. Pup is the only that can really control their hate 100%. And most people wont even bring one and their combined dmg with master + pet is > mnk. Honestly the only DD that shouldn't be able to lower their enmity is SAM, if they are gonna be king of dd they should have no way to lower their enmity.

It depends what your goal is.

It is not SE's intent that only the tank should ever have threat. If it were: they would simply give the Paladin a much higher enmity cap then everyone else.

Enmity caps are there to ensure other players can draw hate as well. Raising them will not stop this from happening either so long as they are uniform across the party. It just means it might happen a little later than usual. So I got no issues with them raising the enmity caps so long as it's done for everyone on an equal basis. Hate needs to be shared through-out the group - else strategy suffers as a result because there would be no purpose to concern yourself with anything else other than offense making for a shallow combat system. I don't find the AoE argument to be a convincing counter to this point of view either.

But there is a legitimate problem here where players geared to mitigate damage (usually tanks) simply cannot compete for threat. It's impossible - and as others have pointed out: what point is there to being a tank if they cannot tank? So something did need to happen on that score.

I would have preferred they just scrap the whole concept of mitigation gear entirely. But it's possible reducing the enmity caused from damage will do the trick. We'll see.

But yeah: if are wanting to be able to go all out on damage without having to worry about the boss turning around to kill you these changes probably won't do it for you. And in my opinion: that's a good thing.

[PlumbGame]

It's not garbage.

That is the problem. The enmity caps weren't the problem. Or at least no the main problem.

It seems you are the only one around here..... or anywhere that feels this way.

[Dale]

It seems you are the only one around here..... or anywhere that feels this way.

As I said Plumb, I can go into a lower tier fight with my damage gear on and tank just fine so long as DD's play smart. Enmity caps still exist on lower tier fights.

The issue of tanks being unable to tank doesn't happen unless they have to equip a lot of mitigation gear which hampers their offense to such a degree they cannot compete for enmity. In short: offense generates too much enmity for players geared defensively to match.

I'm not against raising the enmity caps. Perhaps they were too low. But they just aren't the cause for tanks being unable to tank. SE seems to recognize this which is why are lowering the enmity caused by damage too instead of just raising the enmity caps.

[Nebo]

I'm not against raising the enmity caps. Perhaps they were too low. But they just are not the cause for tanks being unable to tank.

The low enmity caps are exactly the reason that tanks cannot tank.

At any rate, offensively VS defensively blah blah doesnt really have much to do with it either. In the short term, tank abilities and WS don't have enough enmity generation keep up with the massive super powers that have been given to DD's over the years. In the (not so)long term, everyone hits the cap.

Whether or not a tank can DD offensively vs other DDs' should not really be a major part of the "keeping enmity" equation. But none of that matters at all if you are all hitting the cap and mobs are spinning like a top.

When it doesn't matter at all how *good* a tank is, he can't keep hate off of competant DD's, sh*t is broken. A *good* tank should be able to keep hate off *Good* DD's all the time without them having to hold back. I mean the gear/skill check should be there so that bad tanks fail and groups die, but I see no reason why this should not be the case.

[Dale]

The low enmity caps are exactly the reason that tanks cannot tank.
.

No they aren't. Else I would not be able to tank any of the lower tier fights either - as enmity caps are just as low in those as they are in the higher level fights.. Yet I do. You and others keep refusing to accept that the enmity gap brought about by offensive imbalances is a problem.

I almost wish that SE would only raise the enmity caps and keep the enmity generated by damage the same so you could witness it for yourself and see that the exact same problem would end up happening.

Whether or not a tank can DD offensively vs other DDs' should not really be a major part of the "keeping enmity" equation. .

It might shouldn't be but it is. I agree with you that a defensively geared Paladin should be able to compete for enmity with an offensive geared DD. But they can't. And that's the problem.

[Nebo]

No they aren't. .

Yes they are. You are wrong. Offensive imbalances are also not the issue. You are wrong about that too.

[Dale]

Yes they are. You are wrong. Offensive imbalances are also not the issue. You are wrong about that too.

No they aren't. You are wrong. Offensive imbalances are an issue. Which is why SE is lowering the amount of enmity generated by damage to help mediate the problem. You are wrong about that too.