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  1. #11
    Player Kylos's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    120
    Character
    Kylos
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    Pretty sure SE didn't start considering nerfs to dagger weaponskills because of this post, and it's not what I wanted anyway. I wonder how many people cared to read and understand my original post.

    For those who say that "dancer and thief still need to do something to get their massive WS", you seem to forget that I have Thief, and I was THF last night in Woh Gates, and I was absolutely destroying. You have to be completely blind to not notice the massive DPS difference between DNC/THF in comparison to DRK/WAR/DRG (without Mythic).

    Important: Any numbers listed below were under the effects of BRD buffs, on Woh Gates level (119+) monsters. Your damage may vary greatly depending on buffs/equipment/target/ability. These numbers are estimates from eyeballing.

    I could do Evisceration at 1000 tp whenever I didn't have SA/TA, often doing over 2-3k and getting skillchains. I was doing Rudras Storms of 10-20k (without skillchains) just by using TA or SA with it. I don't always ws at 1750 if I have SA/TA ready. It helps but it's not necessary. I was using /dnc as well, just to keep debuffs off.

    Also, why are people waiting til 3000TP to use Rudras!?? You either use Evisceration at 1000, or Rudra's at 1750 (unstacked). Either will do great damage. A Rudras Storm at any TP level paired with Climactic or Sneak Attack will do great damage. DON'T SAVE TP TO 3000! You may see your DPS skyrocket as a result. You are wasting time saving that much TP, unless you are about to pop something.

    My DRK gets NOWHERE NEAR the numbers my THF does. Same mobs, similar buffs, Thief completely kills worms and bunnies, whereas my DRK struggles ... unless I have Torcleaver + Sekkanoki ready. All I could do on DRK was set the THF up for skillchains. On THF I was by far the most damaging DD we had last night (and we took three THFs), and despite that, I was surviving seriously well because the mobs didn't last long.

    I didn't come here to say "NERF THE ONE HANDERS!", I came here to say, "BOOST THE TWO HANDERS!" (except Sam) to the point where it becomes more balanced. I don't want SE to buff WAR DRK and DRG so hard that everyone stops playing SAM THF and DNC.

    I want to add that I have never liked how powerful Samurai is. SAM put jobs like DRK WAR and DRG out in the cold well before the Rudras update. This is why I am asking for a boost to DRK WAR and DRG, to bring them closer (or on the same level) as Samurai. These jobs should be just as, or slightly (and I mean SLIGHTLY, not MILES MORE) more powerful than one handers. I have always been against how powerful Samurai is with their unlimited skillchains.

    Nerfing Rudras Storm and other dagger WS will not fix Dark Knight, Warrior or Dragoon, so I am firmly AGAINST the nerf. Sorry for caps locking certain words, but the game frustrates me. Square Enix cannot see the differences in damage-dealing jobs and how they can be balanced so people will (and be accepted) play any DD job. I should never have the feeling that I am killing the parties damage output because of my job.

    I considered making a Dark Knight guide lately for another forum. You know what the response was? I was told to make a guide about dropping DRK and picking up SAM instead. That may have been absolutely hilarious to some, but to me, it was insulting. I love Dark Knight, I shouldn't be ridiculed because I want to play it, or teach others how to play it.
    (1)
    Last edited by Kylos; 03-15-2015 at 07:37 AM.

  2. #12
    Player Zarchery's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,412
    Character
    Zarchery
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    The talk of "balance" among damage dealing jobs has been going on since the start of the game. It reminds me of that science fiction trope where someone goes back in time to change history, but ends up causing unintended and unforeseen consequences. So that person goes back again to fix THOSE things, but causes MORE problems. And the cycle repeats itself, and things just keep getting worse until the time traveler gives up.

    It's like an endless broken record. "This job is broken. Please fix it. This other job is overpowered. Please weaken it." People act like Square Enix isn't doing anything about it. But they have been doing things about it for over a decade. It's just that like the time traveler, they are trying to fix an unfixable problem. Some damage dealing jobs will always be more popular than others.
    (1)
    Last edited by Zarchery; 03-15-2015 at 05:55 PM.

  3. #13
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    So can we start dancing around a giant burning effigy of a thief?

    Anyone with half a brain saw this nerf coming, it was simply too powerful and opened up an abusive mechanic that many players immediately jumped on. It was similiar to the old school RNG situation except at least SE didn't let it get out of hand.

    As for you DNC's, RS isn't even your best WS though it does have the best SC properties for abuse.
    (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  4. #14
    Player Ulth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by saevel View Post
    So can we start dancing around a giant burning effigy of a thief?

    Anyone with half a brain saw this nerf coming, it was simply too powerful and opened up an abusive mechanic that many players immediately jumped on. It was similiar to the old school RNG situation except at least SE didn't let it get out of hand.

    As for you DNC's, RS isn't even your best WS though it does have the best SC properties for abuse.
    That sums it up nicely. People with half a brain saw it coming, people with all their brain know that thf still isn't best DD. But no, people are mad at thf, not at sam, not at dnc, not at blu. Why is this? because everyone has thf leveled, because everyone needs to farm something at some point. Not many people are as enthusiastic about dnc as someone like Bryth is, and blu is by far the most difficult job to gear, but everyone has a decent thf to solo salvage and dynamis. They don't even realize that there are people who like to play thf, and are happy they can do something with their favorite job now. Just a bunch of crabs in a bucket, if they can't have fun with their favorite job why should anyone else.
    (1)

  5. #15
    Player FrankReynolds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,592
    Character
    Mrkillface
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    People really need to stop shouting "X job can do a 20k weapon skill! Nerf all the things!" and look at the actual Damage over time. There's a lot of jobs that are competitive / better than thief at the moment.

    Never mind the fact that there's nothing in the game that you even need that kind of damage to beat. I'm not saying that other jobs couldn't use a buff, but honestly, there's really no reason that anyone wouldn't invite those jobs as they are other than specific monster gimmicks like piercing damage or w/e. I did a pick up delve with beast, monk, and a pup as DDS last night and no one batted an eye. That's on a server where I've spent the last several years on thf being told things like "What are you gonna do? Tickle it to death?" or "Sorry, we don't need treasure hunter for this...".
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player Jassik's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    San D'Oria
    Posts
    10
    Character
    Jassik
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    BLU isn't hard to gear or play, it is just much less forgiving to players who compromise for inventory, time, or Gil.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player Ulth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Jassik View Post
    BLU isn't hard to gear or play, it is just much less forgiving to players who compromise for inventory, time, or Gil.
    lol, blu isn't harder to gear you just need to spend more time on it, more gil on it, and devote more inventory to it. What is harder about that?
    (2)

  8. #18
    Player Malthar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    674
    Character
    Malthar
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankReynolds View Post
    "What are you gonna do? Tickle it to death?"
    That's why bst got the colibri pet. Oh wait! The colibri doesn't even get feather tickle. /troll
    (1)

  9. #19
    Player Sandmaste's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    56
    Character
    Sandmaster
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    SAM Lv 99
    Those of you who are saying other DD's can do more DoT then a THF atm might be correct, but the problem is due stacked WS numbers of over 20k and even higher SC's, the THF job is now being abused.

    There are some tough Unity fights out there, but not when you have a couple of thf's and a job to open Darkness. Even the toughest of NM's are brought down in very little time.

    W're not talking fodder mobs in CP party's, we're talking the DoT on some pre-boss and Boss NM's that are not designed to be taken down in the very short period of time that they currently are.
    (1)

  10. #20
    Player FrankReynolds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,592
    Character
    Mrkillface
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandmaste View Post
    Those of you who are saying other DD's can do more DoT then a THF atm might be correct, but the problem is due stacked WS numbers of over 20k and even higher SC's, the THF job is now being abused.

    There are some tough Unity fights out there, but not when you have a couple of thf's and a job to open Darkness. Even the toughest of NM's are brought down in very little time.

    W're not talking fodder mobs in CP party's, we're talking the DoT on some pre-boss and Boss NM's that are not designed to be taken down in the very short period of time that they currently are.
    DPS is DPS. Quick deaths are a product of bad monster design. They would be brought down quickly regardless of thief because (yes I'll repeat it) there are other jobs that do just as much damage. You could completely remove thief and dancer from the game and guess what.... Those monsters would still be killed incredibly easy.
    (0)

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