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  1. #1
    Player Kylos's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    120
    Character
    Kylos
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99

    The balance of damage-dealing jobs.

    I have played this game since 2004, and in that time I have seen damage-dealing (DD) jobs swing back-and-forth in a never-ending war of superiority. For most of FFXI's life, Samurai and Monk can be seen as the two jobs who have consistently held their own. In the older days of the game, jobs like Dark Knight and Dragoon were hard to level, as no one wanted them. Players felt those jobs were harder to play for the average user, and that would lead to favoritism over other DD jobs. (the terms, LOLdrk and LOLdrg spring to mind). It got somewhat acceptable for Dark Knight when Resolution was introduced. During the days of Voidwatch, a Resolution spamming Dark Knight was amazing. It trumped other options, and we saw a flood of new Ragnaroks because of it.

    Dark Knight has been my main job since 2005, and I have tried my best to create a reputation as a Dark Knight. Too many DRKs in the past have given the job a bad reputation, but it was helped by the Resolution update. It was so cool to see other players on Dark Knight .. although I was wary of the passion those players had for the job. My father, he plays on the Xbox, and he decided to make Warrior his main job. When Abyssea came out, we decided to make Empyreans together (yes, I made a Redemption despite its hilarious stats). We then built our own relic weapons, the Bravura and Ragnarok. I made my relic, got it to 95 ... then the very next day, Delve was introduced! I had just spent millions of gil on the job, only for it to be usurped by Bereaver. I kept my Ragnarok in my storage for many months, until finally, item level 119 reforging was introduced for relics .. and everything was right again. I enjoyed being a damage dealer, and especially a Dark Knight, because you don't see many of them around. My father and I would take our heavy DD jobs to events, and have a lot of fun doing so.

    My second job has always been THF. I always wanted THF to have more power, to be somewhat closer to the heavy DD, so it wasn't just a Treasure Hunter job. The enmity side of the job died out many years ago, and although I liked using THF to make money, the job is actually quite boring .. aside from using Flee. So I used THF to further my other jobs, and used Dark Knight as my main damage dealing job.

    And then it happened. BANG! Rudra's Storm update. Now we see Samurais, Dancers and Thiefs EVERYWHERE. MNK is still around (just), but where are the other jobs? Warrior, Dark Knight and Dragoon. Three DD jobs with HEAVY gear, with HEAVY two handed weapons. Yet .. my weaponskill averages for Torcleaver/Resolution come out at around 3-4k in Woh Gates. A THF or DNC can easily do 10k+ WS averages. HOW does a Thief or Dancer (barely wearing anything and wielding two small daggers) do MORE damage than a Warrior, Dark Knight and Dragoon without even trying? Just by looking, you can see how that does not make logical sense.

    Here is a comparison between those jobs and my DRK:
    I made a Woh Gates Capacity points party last night. For the first time in many months, I decided to gear my Dark Knight up and take it out for a spin. With Bard buffs, I was told I was keeping up with the THF in the party .. but I was still slightly behind (and I ain't no slouch). The Sneak Attack/Trick Attack Rudras Storms (often with skillchain) kept the THF ahead of me rather easily. My father, who is 50 years old and plays the Xbox with a controller,(and is not known as the quickest player ever) was playing Dancer. He was slightly behind me with bard buffs, and he wasn't even trying to keep up. He plays the game rather casually, and he doesn't care to beat anyone, he just plays to relax.

    And it got worse. We lost the bard, and I replaced the bard with a geomancer. It was impossible then, no matter how hard I tried, no matter how much accuracy I stacked, I could not keep up with the THF. My father, playing Dancer, started beating me on damage. The big scary looking Dark Knight with a Relic Great Sword could not beat a THF (delve daggers probably) and a DNC (Izhiikoh/Sabebus) on damage. I was told at the end of our party that my father had beaten me this time. He was happy to come out ahead for a change (because he never does), but I was left thinking .. why is my Dark Knight so weak?

    My father told me he hasn't played Warrior for a long time, and misses playing it. I look around in today's game, and I don't see many Warriors, Dark Knights or Dragoons. It's filled with Thiefs, Dancers and Samurais. A mythic Samurai is supremely broken, and is still by far the best DD job in the game. The ONLY way a DRK WAR or DRG can compete is to have a Mythic Weapon. Why should any player who loves their heavy DD job be forced to build a Mythic to be accepted? It's not fair to those players.

    I hate the Rudra's Storm update, I really do. And I hate how powerful Samurais are (the good ones who know how to use a Mythic) compared to other DD. The average weaponskill for these jobs are pitiful in comparison to Rudra's Storm. This rant needs to end, so I will give some suggestions:
    • Dark Knight - Make Endark II instant cast. Endark is NOT fun to use, it takes a lot of time away from damage dealing. Also lower the dread spikes cast, or make it instant. These two spells make it much harder for a DRK to be consistent. Also make Torcleaver stronger than Resolution. Apocalypse is COMPLETELY useless since the introduction of Trust.
    • Warrior - Either buff the weaponskills, or make the job exceptionally harder to kill. The biggest downfall for Warrior is its lack of survivability. Give Warriors much more defense in general, that way a Warrior can remain constant in battle, whereas other DD jobs might struggle to stay alive. Put Ukko's Fury back to how it used to be.
    • Dragoon - Fix the wyvern and lower the recast on Call Wyvern a LOT (seen this comment an incredible amount of times). Make jumps much more powerful/useful. Make the job more appealing by giving the ability to customize the wyvern. Adjust weaponskills for the job.

    At the moment we have three jobs not using the heaviest looking gear, but deliver the heaviest numbers. Change this so I can play my Dark Knight (and my dad his Warrior) without feeling like we are costing the party. No player should be forced to build a Mythic to be considered on their favourite DD job for anything in today's game. Aside from all that, I like all the recent updates to the game. I just wish I wasn't stuck on THF or Corsair 99% of the time. I play this game to be a Dark Knight, I don't really care about other jobs, I always have the most fun on DRK. Give us something, and I don't mean Endark II .. I mean, REALLY give us something. Balance in this game would be a beautiful thing.
    (7)
    Last edited by Kylos; 03-13-2015 at 06:20 AM.

  2. #2
    Player V-1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Geneva, Illinois
    Posts
    39
    Character
    Svetlana
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    In a way i do feel you and what trying to say, i am all up for DRK WAR and DRG boost in some way its been long overdue specially DRG's poor ws : : i do however have to disagree with you on Rudra's Storm, my main job is DNC and i am no average DNC but i am no mythic weapon user either, i am a 119 full relic set user with Izhiikoh and Sabebus on average at 100 tp i mainly do 3-5k-7-8k ish depending on the monster's lv, the only way i can reach 10k+ ws on anything over easy prey mandies in ceizak is by using building flourish and or climactic flourish to add to that, i almost always have to ws at 300tp to hit those high numbers, i dont think its fair your comparing your most likely 100tp ws vs a DNC or a THF at 300tp on top of that we are using 1 or 2 abilities to boost the ws it does not come for free like most people assume and certainly not at 100tp by closing ws we can deal massive dmg sc darkness DNC can do this on their own with reverse flourish or /SAM automatically doing more dmg. you cant compare a job who can SC with one who cant, also any jobs who closes a ws creating darkness or light will do more dmg on average, ive seen THF do 27k ws with sneak/trick +300tp and get a 32k darkness but ive also seen my best friend chain my 4k Shattersoul with his DRK and get a 35-44k darkness that ive mb water V for 17K, if we could spam 20k+ ws at 100 tp with no ability boost id agree with you but we have to save tp to 300 and use 1 or 2 abilities to make those omg ws dmg you are witnessing, also how come when a job like DNC and or THF that before Rudra's came along were pretty much always left out the dd spots finally get to shine, to be on top for once everyone has a negative opinion about it, even SE agree that these 2 jobs were also consider damage dealers therefore they needed something to actually deal dmg with, take a look at all our other ws, they all suck, Rudra is the only ws we can spike that high and the only viable way to deal dmg in Adoulin areas and you want to take that away from us because your DRK cant spikes his ws? i agree with you, that those jobs you mention need a boost both in offense and defense but mainly your atk speed 2 handed weapons are so slow anyone with a dagger/katana/sword even axe will most likely out dd you on reg dmg. but i don't think killing DNC and THF's only viable ws is the right thing to do, i like finally having my DNC get invited to events for once as a dmg dealer and again its not fair that because we get to be on top for a change everyone is trying to force a nerf on Rudra so that these to jobs can go back to being obsolete……... find another option that doesn't involved killing 2 job to make yourself feel better about yours. no offense intended.
    (1)
    Last edited by V-1000; 03-13-2015 at 02:34 PM.

  3. #3
    Player V-1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Geneva, Illinois
    Posts
    39
    Character
    Svetlana
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    Also heavy set gear is more for def than dmg, wearing something heavy has nothing to do with how much dmg you can do it just means you have more defense than any other job. did not really mention SAM on last post, they can spam ws every couple of sec but no one seems to be bother by it but the second DNC and THF got something good everyone /bark SAM and MNK have been on top for years and people did not really cared as those were jobs fav by the players even if they were overpowered…. this Rudra's Storm WITCH HUNT is just BS! and needs to stop.
    (1)
    Last edited by V-1000; 03-13-2015 at 02:37 PM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,542
    Part of it isn't so much as how powerful they are as how powerful they are perceived or how commonly they get the buffs/debuffs to make them powerful... Like for example heavy DDS have usually excelled at having abundance of attack... well now a lot of groups are running with lots of +att/-def buffs/debuffs making the heavy dds att irrelevant.

    I've seen and done 60k ws with cloudsplitter and trueflight and those are generally ws that are laughed at. And I still haven't finished my builds. But this requires magic buffs/debuffs which most aren't willing to do. Though even without it I was able to end a self light a few tims with my pet for a good 6-10k cloudsplitter then magic burst it for another 3-4k (no pet mab sets ) in yorcia delve the other day with no magic buffs/debuffs
    (1)
    Last edited by dasva; 03-13-2015 at 02:51 PM.

  5. #5
    Player V-1000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Geneva, Illinois
    Posts
    39
    Character
    Svetlana
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    Well Kylos it seems your wish just came true, just saw the upcoming nerf to Rudra's storm thanks to people like you my DNC will now go back to being useless ty for this…..freaking people man… as long as their jobs are on top they don't complaint but when someone else's is its a crime. i knew this would happen if people keep bringing it up over and over.
    (4)

  6. #6
    Player Ladynamine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    219
    Character
    Astronema
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by V-1000 View Post
    Well Kylos it seems your wish just came true, just saw the upcoming nerf to Rudra's storm thanks to people like you my DNC will now go back to being useless ty for this…..freaking people man… as long as their jobs are on top they don't complaint but when someone else's is its a crime. i knew this would happen if people keep bringing it up over and over.
    where's the proof?

    EDIT: Nevermind. found it. there goes dnc's only decent damaging ws. good thing i got all my gear from skirmish before all of this happened. now yorcia weald will truly be mage only when it comes to alluvion skirmish.

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post542969
    (1)
    Last edited by Ladynamine; 03-14-2015 at 02:30 AM.

  7. #7
    Player Traxus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    98
    Character
    Traxus
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    I've full cleared 3/3/3 alluvion yorcia with 2 players, so I think you can manage to bring whatever jobs you want to a 6man group.
    (1)

  8. #8
    Player Ladynamine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    219
    Character
    Astronema
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Traxus View Post
    I've full cleared 3/3/3 alluvion yorcia with 2 players, so I think you can manage to bring whatever jobs you want to a 6man group.
    exactly...but tell that to all of my server....they think its mage only xD ....friend of mine and me did it as dnc, dnc, whm w/ friend duo-boxing whm and dnc.
    (1)
    Last edited by Ladynamine; 03-14-2015 at 02:29 AM.

  9. #9
    Player Ulth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    He probably was using blu, which completely owns that event. Blu is actually a top tier dd with a ton of versatility, but they won't have to worry about getting nerfed. Because 90% of blus are terrible, 99% of players don't know how blu works, it by far the hardest job to gear and get spells for, and 73.6% of all statistics are made up.
    (2)

  10. #10
    Player Traxus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    98
    Character
    Traxus
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Blu is probably best, but I've been going sch because I need JP on that job. Anyone that can cure/haste valiants to do book (smn or rdm is best for haste 2) + any nuker should be able to clear ~t3 if you know what you're doing. I haven't tried to solo or duo t4/5 so idk if they're any harder.
    (0)

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