Job Adjustments in March 2015 Update

[Crevox]

You should consider trying it before forming an opinion on whether it's easy or not. Have you even ever played thf once?

No, but does the difficulty of playing it really matter? The situation I'm describing involves cooperation, high equipment, and strategy from multiple players. THF is using 1 or 2 abilities followed by a weaponskill.

I know about the conditions for SATA. I watch my friend do it all the time, I hear him complain about when the mob or party members move, I hear him complain when things don't go right, I hear people complain to me when I run in circles around the monster, etc. I have even joked that I run around in circles around the monster on purpose so people can play "time the taru" with Trick Attack (no, not actually on purpose).

This all doesn't change the fact that Rudra's Storm does too much damage. Again, this is subjective, of course.

[Ulth]

No, but does the diffculty of playing it really matter? The situation I'm describing involves cooperation, high equipment, and strategy from multiple players. THF is using 1 or 2 abilities followed by a weaponskill.

I know about the conditions for SATA. I watch my friend do it all the time, I hear him complain about when the mob or party members move, I hear him complain when things don't go right, I hear people complain to me when I run in circles around the monster, etc. I have even joked that I run around in circles around the monster on purpose so people can play "time the taru" with Trick Attack (no, not actually on purpose).

This all doesn't change the fact that Rudra's Storm does too much damage. Again, this is subjective, of course.

Yep party members move, mobs move, people stand on the very edge of attacking range so we can't attack from behind them, and they stand with their backs flush to the wall. Hate caps after our first SA, so our second SA is used with bully, at that point it might as well be on a 3 minute timer. There is also bind, the status effect that everything seems to love to do, and knock back. Lots of fun easy times with thf when these are going on. And do you know what all this headaches gives us? Still not the best dps in the game, and I'm honestly fine with not being the best, but I don't know why everyone wants thf to be the worst. Honestly right now I think the only jobs who didn't pull a head of thf with the addition of allvion armor is nin and drk, and i haven't even seen anyone spreed sheet drk yet.

[Ulth]

In this thread there have been people saying [paraphrased] "I don't play WAR, don't use Upheaval, but I read something on FFxiah about it that says its really powerful ws, so that must be the truth."

I read this and lolled because I do Upheavals every day in [gear VIT+170] all 119 attack gear and a Svarga DMG+34, and I use torques/belts for ws, and it rolls out these 2500 damage ws on EP mobs sometimes, more often 6~9k on EP mobs. But it is funny that people who never used the ws or play the job, are telling me that my Upheavals are weak because of my weak War gear, and they know this for sure coz some random person on FFxiah said so.

Swings and roundabouts, hypocrisy galloping free.

Boy you sure have an axe to grind. I don't really have time for anymore of your nonsense though. What with all the stunts you have pulled in this thread already.

[Mooserocka]

Skillchains are tremendous, SAMs being able to reliably self skillchain is why everyone does Yorcia with 2x SAMs, because the Light chain removes Wopket's aura quickly and easily (and he's weak to slashing, but). SAMs also get every L2 skillchain property, so they can chain anything any time easily, and as was mentioned earlier, a SAM with sufficient TP generation can indefinitely L2 skillchain. Or two SAMs with slightly less TP gen can do the same, if coordinated. Honestly I think Machini's theory that THF WSes are being nerfed precisely because THFs can infinitely chain like SAMs can has merit, as far as we can tell there's no actual cap to how high the bonus damage for a skill chain can go -- everything dies too quickly.

Additionally, SAMs also have the ability to use Namas/Apex Arrow, adding to their versatility on some fights like Pil, for instance.

Mythic

Fortunately, at 1k TP, Pyrrhic Kleos with Terpsichore is better damage than Rudra's at 1k TP currently, so it'll be even better after whatever nerfs we get. Unfortunately, that means going through the work and effort to get a Terpsichore.

Mythic wouldn't be an option for me . But yea I'm just hoping they don't kill it to much. And the reason they gave about climactic sure it's great but has a long cd. Maybe if they shortened it dancer would be relevant? Even with rudra people always want a thief over you. Without it will probobly be the same .

[Ulth]

Mythic wouldn't be an option for me . But yea I'm just hoping they don't kill it to much. And the reason they gave about climactic sure it's great but has a long cd. Maybe if they shortened it dancer would be relevant? Even with rudra people always want a thief over you. Without it will probobly be the same .

You don't need a Terpsichore to do good damage on dnc, it does help though. If you want to learn how to dnc or any job you should check out the guides on ffxiah. The front post of most of them don't get updated anymore because those who originally wrote them have since left the game, but flipping to the last pages in the topic will have current information.

[Kassaiemi]

In this thread there have been people saying [paraphrased] "I don't play WAR, don't use Upheaval, but I read something on FFxiah about it that says its really powerful ws, so that must be the truth."

I read this and lolled because I do Upheavals every day in [gear VIT+170] all 119 attack gear and a Svarga DMG+34, and I use torques/belts for ws, and it rolls out these 2500 damage ws on EP mobs sometimes, more often 6~9k on EP mobs. But it is funny that people who never used the ws or play the job, are telling me that my Upheavals are weak because of my weak War gear, and they know this for sure coz some random person on FFxiah said so.

Swings and roundabouts, hypocrisy galloping free.

You get those 2500 Upheavals sometimes because it's a four hit WS, and with the 95% hit rate cap, you only have an 81% chance of actually landing all four hits even if you ARE hit capped. So sometimes you only land one or two hits and it does next to nothing. Rudra's and Fudo are both more consistent because they are single hit WSes, and Rudra's has a 99% hit cap (there's also something weird where it still hits even when it "misses" but it does 1/10th the damage it should have -- the only time I've seen a full up Rudra's miss is when it's absorbed by a shadow).

Martial Mastery WSes in general are bad if you have any other options -- quested WSes are usually better, i.e. Evisceration more often than not out damages Exenterator, especially because it's a WS capable of critting, and frankly, R/E/M WSes should be tuned so they blow MM WSes out of the water.

You can use Upheaval if you like it, but it's still not as good an option as Ukko's. Ukko's benefits more from multi-attacks because it has fewer base swings (there's a cap of 8 attacks per round/WS -- DA/TA/QA doesn't benefit Asuran Fists at all, for instance), higher fTP until you hit 3k TP, is capable of critting, and has a far more favorable stat scaling for you.

If you were interested in making comparisons that are actually fair, you'd compare Upheaval to Exenterator, and I can tell you, my Exenterator at 5/5 generally caps at 5-6k damage at the absolute maximum (read: in Abyssea, with Abyssea buffs), so your Upheaval is still doing far better.

What I really want to know is why you feel a WS that everyone can easily get for 20 merits should do comparable damage to a weapon skill that involves a few million gil worth of items at the bare minimum to acquire, and historically required completing an Empyrean weapon. You keep saying you just "think it's funny" but you're backhandedly arguing that you feel your Upheaval should do as much damage as Rudra's, or that the inverse should be true, and frankly it's more than a little irritating.

[darkhorror]

Your lead should be fired if he thinks this is how you go about "balancing"

[Skeelo]

Before the game is completely dead, can we please let drg be top dd for a while, so i can go out with a bang? Been 100% dedicated to this job like an idiot and have been repeatedly let down.

[bazookatooth]

In this thread there have been people saying [paraphrased] "I don't play WAR, don't use Upheaval, but I read something on FFxiah about it that says its really powerful ws, so that must be the truth."

I read this and lolled because I do Upheavals every day in [gear VIT+170] all 119 attack gear and a Svarga DMG+34, and I use torques/belts for ws, and it rolls out these 2500 damage ws on EP mobs sometimes, more often 6~9k on EP mobs. But it is funny that people who never used the ws or play the job, are telling me that my Upheavals are weak because of my weak War gear, and they know this for sure coz some random person on FFxiah said so.

Swings and roundabouts, hypocrisy galloping free.

I got bored and decided to test this. I had to level my GA to 357 to get upheaval since I don't play war. I grabbed whatever 119 gear that I had from sam and threw it on war/dnc and went out and fought la'thein liege. I don't have any gear swaps set up or even know how to gear for upheaval because I didn't bother to check. I used atma of the apocalypse/razed ruin/voracious violet and was able to consistently get 10k-12k upheavals with just one merit in it.

[bazookatooth]

Yes. I did a 28k Upheaval on Turul too. Thats Aby though.

Ok, I kill EP capacity points mobs and Upheaval does around 3~8k. I kill EP capacity mobs on Thf and Rudras does around 4~10k. Sometimes it goes off the charts and just oneshots the mob.

But thankyou for continuing to take my original post out of context entirely, missing the whole point I was making about general concepts re; heavy weapons vs. light weapons, and how while I uderstand its a game and has its own game rules on these things, I am still surprised every time my dagger dishes out even similar damage to my great axe.

I'm surprised how far people will go to take things out of context, even levelling jobs and skilling weapons just to argue against a fictional point that I never even made in the first place.

I baked a cake with your face on it and wrote your name on my pencilcase coz I <3 U

I just noticed that people seemed to be arguing that one or the other doesn't play the job in question and should have no opinion on it, so I thought I'd actually play both jobs and put this to rest so that people can go back to more constructive conversations. The reality is that anecdotal evidence is pretty useless considering that tons of people run parses on this game and there are easily available spreadsheets that tell you exactly what each job can do against each target under each different kind of buff / debuff situation.

So basically, me (or anyone else) saying "I did X amount of damage with X weapon skill" really has no place in the conversation other than to muddy the waters.

As for the size of the weapons, my dagger is bigger than a taru taru Great axe so logically I should do far more damage with it. But that's neither here nor there because the word "Fantasy" is right in the title of the game, meaning that none of this is supposed to be realistic.