Job Adjustments in March 2015 Update

[Crevox]

Its not as if putting a COR GEO and RUN in a party is all that hard.

It's not even just that. The synergy of how they are using their abilities that causes all this is very well timed and in a strict order. Either way, if these jobs were in a party with other DD, the other DD would not be receiving the benefit at all, because the COR is rolling ONLY for the SMN, and only 1/2 of the GEO buffs benefit the DD. The RUN doesn't benefit them at all, and actually, the DD can easily screw up the strategy due to the specific timing and order of weaponskills to create skillchains. All of this makes it very unfriendly to pugs, on top of the massive gear requirement from the SMN.

It's not just "buff up, go spam Flaming Crush" like it is for Rudra's or Fudo. There's a lot more that goes into it, and even more so because it varies from mob to mob, and getting 4 skilled players to pull it off is not so easy.

It's not like this is the only strategy to do this, either. There are many other niche strats with other jobs that can do crazy stuff. When a group of skilled players get together and perfectly synergize, stuff like this happens. People are extremely naive to balance and job power in this game. Most haven't even released how strong BST is now, how strong nukes actually are, how strong random abilities like Immanence are, etc.

[Nebo]

As you can see, that SMN had no need for any other DD's in that party. I'm hard pressed to think of any strategy with any DD setup that could kill Wopket as fast as they did with just 1 SMN closing Skillchains.

It's not just "buff up, go spam Flaming Crush" like it is for Rudra's or Fudo.

lol. Whaaaaat? For THF, it is not like that for Rudra's at all. If you are doing that with Rudra's you aren't touching any conventional job's DD potential. You have to position and coordinate with other party members for SA/TA. You have to coordinate double darkness skillchains and you have to hold tp.

This is precisely why I am being so vocal about this subject. A lot of people crying for the nerf don't have their facts (or numbers) straight.

[Crevox]

You have to position and coordinate with other party members for SA/TA. You have to coordinate double darkness skillchains and you have to hold tp.

This is precisely why I am being so vocal about this subject. A lot of people crying for the nerf don't have their facts (or numbers) straight.

I do not consider using SATA to be difficult, at all. Using a job ability on cooldown to time it with a weaponskill and minorly moving to adjust to the position of the enemy is extremely simple. Also, using a weaponskill after someone else (skillchaining) is one of the most basic combat concepts in this game, and if you think that's hard, well, I dunno what to say.

As you can see, that SMN had no need for any other DD's in that party.

You're right, but the party is not so easy to setup, because you need 4 skilled people of those specific jobs that are all well informed on the plan, the ability order for each NM, cooldowns, and more. People are like "why don't people invite SMN if it is so op" because you can't just invite a SMN and expect it to pull numbers like that.

I'm pretty sure the GEO also had Idris (GEO ergon weapon), on top of using Bolster. It's extremely stacked conditions from skilled players (remember, the SMN had Nirvana too).

[Nebo]

I do not consider using SATA to be difficult, at all. Using a job ability on cooldown to time it with a weaponskill and minorly moving to adjust to the position of the enemy is extremely simple. Also, using a weaponskill after someone else (skillchaining) is one of the most basic combat concepts in this game, and if you think that's hard, well, I dunno what to say.

lol You just went from "mindlessly spamming Rudra's" to positioning and skillchaining are not hard. But judging by your response its pretty clear you don't have a lot of THF experience with constantly spinning mobs at the hate cap or players that love to move their character and figdet around constantly for no aparent reason.

Truthfully, it does take some coordination to set up SATA, play cooperatively and create double darkness skillchains for the THF to close. Is it hard? Not especially. Is it easy to do with the quality of most PUGs? (the basis of your argument) Not really.

I don't know what super skill you are trying to argue it takes for the COR and GEO to throw up buffs (something they do in every content) and then for the RUN to throw up Gambit before he opens resolution for the SMN to close light with flaming crush? None of that was hard at all.

And that specific strategy could be expanded on with weaker SMNs and GEO. Same RUN tank same buffs, just more SMNS constantly taking turns closing hate free light SC. Call it PLD RNG strat V2.0

[Crevox]

You just went from "mindlessly spamming Rudra's" to positioning and skillchaining are not hard.

I don't consider using these job abilities as requiring any effort. It's basically mindless, yes.

[Nebo]

Something about that argument is basically mindless...thats for sure.

[Crevox]

Something about that argument is basically mindless...thats for sure.

We are allowed to have different opinions on the difficulty of using 1 or 2 abilities and slightly moving around. Again, there is no need to resort to insults.

[Nebo]

We are allowed to have different opinions on the difficulty of using 1 or 2 abilities and slightly moving around. Again, there is no need to resort to insults.

I agree. It's just that lots of people have vocal oppinions about things they don't specifically understand. I find that to be insulting, particularly because its Thief's neck on the chopping block as a result.

[Crevox]

I agree. It's just that lots of people have vocal oppinions about things they don't specifically understand. I find that to be insulting, particularly because its Thief's neck on the chopping block as a result.

Even when things are understood, there is still disagreement and different opinions. Yeah, I don't play THF, but my friend I do a bunch of content with does, and he believes Rudra's Storm is too strong. I am in agreement with him, not just because of seeing him play, but after being partied with so many different thieves in so many different pieces of content.

At the end of the day, it's just something we disagree on, and that's how it is. SE will have to take both of our feedback into account.

[Ulth]

I do not consider using SATA to be difficult, at all. Using a job ability on cooldown to time it with a weaponskill and minorly moving to adjust to the position of the enemy is extremely simple. Also, using a weaponskill after someone else (skillchaining) is one of the most basic combat concepts in this game, and if you think that's hard, well, I dunno what to say.



You're right, but the party is not so easy to setup, because you need 4 skilled people of those specific jobs that are all well informed on the plan, the ability order for each NM, cooldowns, and more. People are like "why don't people invite SMN if it is so op" because you can't just invite a SMN and expect it to pull numbers like that.

I'm pretty sure the GEO also had Idris (GEO ergon weapon), on top of using Bolster. It's extremely stacked conditions from skilled players (remember, the SMN had Nirvana too).

You should consider trying it before forming an opinion on whether it's easy or not. Have you even ever played thf once?

edit: didn't see the post where you said you don't play thf