Job Adjustments in March 2015 Update

[Crevox]

Except SE will just take yet another rdm only spell and give it to smn and geo somehow.

Maybe, but this is an assumption. The only spell RDM got unique and lost to someone else was SMN, but both RDM and Garuda have always been the best hasters. GEO's haste is no different than march in reality, and Flurry II remains a RDM only thing.

If rdm is to be a desirable job again SE needs to fix the enfeebling magic. Not make B.S. spells like Ardor and nerf rudra because sam's are crying.

I wouldn't say Ardor is B.S., considering it sounds like a powerful buff.

Enfeebling Magic is a bit more potent than most people believe or would have you believe. Slow II and Paralyze II are very crippling, and Slow II stacks with Elegy. Addle is a very strong debuff, Distract II and Frazzle II are also huge in affecting accuracy, etc. The problem is just these things are often overlooked, people do not gear properly for them/even use them as RDM, and people would rather have another buffer. Ardor will help RDM a lot, in addition to the Blind/Poison adjustments, job point categories, etc.

If people would stop being potato and start using the nukes available to them, RDM can also do some pretty good damage, on top of all the support they're bringing, but for some reason people are afraid of casting nukes on monsters.

"sam only" shouts all over again.

Except SAM is getting nerfed too, and it hasn't been that way for a while. A lot of DD jobs are viable now, whether or not the community realizes it. SE has been doing a great job of balancing things with the new gear, augments, job points, gifts, and other changes. The only real big difference that is painfully obvious is skillchain damage. Regardless of that, all content in the game can be cleared without Samurais.

thf mostly but anything is taken with at least 1 thf in pt.

Yeah, no. People bandwagoned onto THF because Rudra's became OP, and now it's getting nerfed, and everyone is flipping out about it. People should learn to just play the jobs they want to play instead of trying to jump onto whatever is the most OP.

[Celoria]

And yet sams were still keeping up and yet I can hit just as high ws dmg with several other ws

I admit SA/TARudra is strong as hell and needed something, however if you are keeping up with thf, then you play with some trash thf's. Unstacked Kolento and I were popping 15k-20k Rudra everywhere from lolpandwarden, to yorcia skirmish, delve, high tier bcnm and incursions

Maybe, but this is an assumption. The only spell RDM got unique and lost to someone else was SMN, but both RDM and Garuda have always been the best hasters. GEO's haste is no different than march in reality, and Flurry II remains a RDM only thing.



I wouldn't say Ardor is B.S., considering it sounds like a powerful buff.

Enfeebling Magic is a bit more potent than most people believe or would have you believe. Slow II and Paralyze II are very crippling, and Slow II stacks with Elegy. Addle is a very strong debuff, Distract II and Frazzle II are also huge in affecting accuracy, etc. The problem is just these things are often overlooked, people do not gear properly for them/even use them as RDM, and people would rather have another buffer. Ardor will help RDM a lot, in addition to the Blind/Poison adjustments, job point categories, etc. If people would stop being potato and start using the nukes available to them, RDM can do some pretty good damage, on top of all the support they're bringing, for some reason people are afraid of casting nukes on monsters.



Except SAM is getting nerfed too, and it hasn't been that way for a while. A lot of DD jobs are viable now, whether or not the community realizes it. SE has been doing a great job of balancing things with the new gear, augments, job points, gifts, and other changes. The only real big difference that is painfully obvious is skillchain damage. Regardless of that, all content in the game can be cleared without Samurais.



Yeah, no. People bandwagoned onto THF because Rudra's became OP, and now it's getting nerfed, and everyone is flipping out about it. People should learn to just play the jobs they want to play instead of trying to jump onto whatever is the most OP.

Reason I say Ardor is B.S. is because it just keeps rdm a rotation whore and doesn't really help rdm best category, enfeebling magic.


I am a rdm, I have all the enfeeble gear you could want, very rarely will those enfeebles do more than just land on an nm. I think one time I saw para II proc more than 4 times before it wore off in yorcia delve. Whenever I endgame on rdm, I drop every debuff I own on anything we fight, yes it helps some, but not enough. 9:10 times you won't see a notiable difference.

If sam is getting nerfed as well let me be the first to say, "Hallelujah!" I much rather drk than any other DD job. Why a 224 dmg weapon is even in the same ballpark as a 268+30/40 dmg and acc/attk +DA is beyond me. (Then again 115 dmg daggers trash everything.) Let me not even start on scythe weapons and ws.

As for thf being OP and people bandwagon, yes that is true, however the people that are freaking out the most are the ones that were thf long before thf was a DD. The bandwagon thf's have no validity to anything they cry about in my opinion. BUT! I repeat, if you take one decent thf to delve that is pretty much the only DD you need. Hell you can take a whm/nin hexa strike as long as that thf can SA/TA you will have plenty of DD for the run. (Aside Bird and Tiger)

[Zeargi]

90% of the people in this thread have little to no idea of the balance of the game right now in end game, or across all the jobs. I would wager that most of them do not even do Delve, high level Incursion, or D/VD battlefields, yet are trying to convince the development team that they know better about the balance of the game than the devs do. The bad spell suggestions above are a good example, but a lot of the posts here are good too.

You really believe that this is the only thing out of balance? When People for Delve have to stun-lock crap because just 1 TP move, just 1 can end a run? Or that EVERYTHING 'requires' a BRD or it can't be done. There is hardly anything balanced about this game. WAR was the original tank, now it's next to impossible to use it because it can't survive. We have a 'Magical Tank,' but still won't get invited instead of PLD. We had a 'Blink Tank' but that went out the door because EVERYTHING AoEs. We have SMN, GEO, and COR, but do they get invited, usually not. DRG, DRK, BST, or PUP over SAM, MNK, or RNG, not a chance. All people see is this big number from stacking abilities and then suddenly people start this horrible idea that THF can't do that. I enjoy partying with THFs as my SMN because I can contribute to help them. SAM just goes bat S*** crazy with WS, I mean look at the Gilgamesh Trust. But this game was horrible out of balance LONG before this Rudra's Storm WS upgrade. I stand by what I said, rather than bring Rudra's down, bring the others up to meet it. These are 'Legendary WS' and they should be badass, They're birthed from Weapons that are suppose to be the highest ranking weapons of their class.

[Crevox]

You really believe that this is the only thing out of balance?

No. Did I ever say that? No, I didn't. But hey, I'm glad they're nerfing the biggest outlier.

When People for Delve have to stun-lock crap because just 1 TP move, just 1 can end a run?

Some people do this, sure, but it is by no means required.

The only boss this is done on is Tojil, by the way, and that is because of Incinerating Lahar which inflicts Weakness. You can survive this without stunning it, however for pug groups, preventing it from happening is the safest strategy.

Remember when I said that people who don't even do Delve or understand it are trying to suggest balance changes? I think that's you right now.

Or that EVERYTHING 'requires' a BRD or it can't be done.

BRD is an extremely powerful support, and the community acknowledges this. In all reality, haste is just such a powerful buff, that capping haste from buff sources (magic haste) is extremely useful, on top of the MP refresh it provides to the healer with ballads, enfeebles, extra healing/erases, etc. The main reason BRD is brought to anything is because of March and Lullaby, but everything else BRD does is also fantastic.

Could you go without a BRD? Sure, but it would be a bad idea in many cases, because you'd be missing out on all that extra haste. GEO works instead of BRD now too, though, people are just slow to catch on and people have a hard time learning how to play GEO for some reason.

We have a 'Magical Tank,' but still won't get invited instead of PLD.

Why do you keep blaming the game for what is the community's fault? RUN can tank everything in the game except the most difficult content. However, VERY few people play RUN, and when they do, they often do a very bad job at it. It's a much harder job to play than Paladin. Thus, people don't even bother shouting for RUN, because:

1. It's very unlikely there's even going to be one that wants to join as a RUN
2. If it does want to join, it's probably not geared or doesn't know how to play the job properly
3. It just introduces a huge risk because of the two above points

Besides that, PLD is just often stronger in general; certainly not required to be stronger in most cases, but still.

We had a 'Blink Tank' but that went out the door because EVERYTHING AoEs.

You're correct, NIN could use some buffs in this department, or content needs to be adjusted to stop eating so many shadows. SE has already acknowledged this and implemented a lot of new content (Unity NMs, maybe vagary) where Ninjas could tank much more comfortably. However, again, do you see any Ninjas? Because I don't see anyone playing Ninjas. They can DD pretty well, even better if SE decides to fix Blade: Kamu like they said they were going to recently, it's just that people don't want to play it because it's not OP THF Rudras/people don't like Ninja.

We have SMN, GEO, and COR, but do they get invited, usually not.

COR and GEO are used in tons of content; COR is not used a replacement to BRD due to lack of lullaby and hastes. GEO is extremely powerful, but there is still a lack of people playing it, and a lot of people do quite poorly at it. I've invited many random GEOs, and none of them nuke or enfeeble, and even though I tell them exactly what buffs/debuffs I desire, they have a hard time doing it for some reason.

SMN is getting buffs, but is actually a decent buffing job now. They just have a hefty gear requirement (in addition to a lot of swapping around gear required) and are a bit unorthodox to play with buff/favor juggling, but the buffs we're getting is actually helping that. I just wish some of their weaker buffs would scale up a bit better (Noctoshield, Shining Ruby, etc).

Regardless of all these things, and all that you've stated, Rudra's was still overpowered, and still needed a nerf.

[dasva]

I admit SA/TARudra is strong as hell and needed something, however if you are keeping up with thf, then you play with some trash thf's. Unstacked Kolento and I were popping 15k-20k Rudra everywhere from lolpandwarden, to yorcia skirmish, delve, high tier bcnm and incursions

Or maybe you are playing with trash sams and apparently only go in super buffed? Those numbers are far from typical of typical thfs. 20k unstacked on non piercing weak stuff is ridiculously high even assuming really good sets and capped pdif and 3000 tp. And congratulations in the time it took you to get that a good sam just did a 5 step skillchain for more. Which brings me to a point I've made before... the ws wasn't meant to be used with capped pdif as the jobs that get it aren't ones that do that easily. The only time/reason thfs are topping out like that are because of ridiculous overbuffing that completely nullifies the inherent greater attack most 2hders get.

A better solution would be to make those things matter again. Maybe address how OP Geo is. And again if I got the right buffs/debuffs I can hit even higher dmgs with at least 4 different ws of the top of my head. 1 or 2 of which I believe I can self lvl 3 without having to /sam.

[dasva]

Except SAM is getting nerfed too, and it hasn't been that way for a while.

Except nothing SE posted talked about a nerf for sam...

[Crevox]

Except nothing SE posted talked about a nerf for sam...

we have begun to consider balance adjustments for melee jobs, specifically the thief and samurai, in the March version update.

They talked about the dagger changes, yeah, but they simply didn't say what they were doing to SAM yet. They clearly are "considering" doing something, we just don't know what it is yet.

[PlumbGame]

I feel the direction SE is going with the rudras nerf wasn't directly because they currently feel rudras is too OP, but given the power behind closing a darkness in the update with ardor will make content designed around people really now just using thiefs only for closing darkness. I can't say for certainty but that seems to be the implications of the community reps response. I think there is many variables not being looked at. Any serious player in this game knows how powerful thief currently is, BUT, they also know that thief isn't raining superior to ALL dds. Along what the community rep pointed out, it usually seems OP given the health pool of certain mobs being obliterated by a rudras making darkness. On content though that is actually relevant that other jobs have more up time, you would see more equalization among a few DDs. The issue now arises because they are balancing content around ardor. Why are they using 1 spell a job gets to balance our DD jobs? It's a poor way to balance. Not only are people still not going to bring a rdm to everything, even if they did, the average player base doesn't have the capacity to coordinate skillchains or should be required (considering the direction of the game) of them to take advantage of ardor on a thief, really resulting in nerf to the job overall, though I don't think that was the original intention. SE seems to want us to bring rdms and wants us to also SC, which would probably keep us at the same level, but again, unrealistic to expect from everyone.

Ardor needs to be adjusted, or skillchain damage needs to be adjusted. The issue isn't rudras itself and created a lot more versatility in end game content which I think might phase thf out. I'm not super worried, especially since it hit me the adjustments could be towards the ftp at 2k+ tp since given the little info we know about ardors, thiefs AAing to 3k tp and closing darkness left and right is probably what is overpowered. If they don't want jobs doing as much SC damage and don't want to nerf SCs because of the nerf that would be to sam, nerf SCs and give sam bigger SC bonuses.

Anyways, please reconsider the nerf to rudras and find other alternatives (which I would personally suggest buffing other DD jobs).

[dasva]

They talked about the dagger changes, yeah, but they simply didn't say what they were doing to SAM yet. They clearly are "considering" doing something, we just don't know what it is yet.

Considering something doesn't mean doing something. Not that long ago they were also considering adjusting 2hd weapons to balance with 1hd and we are seeing how that played out... for all you know ardor is there answer in balancing sam as laughable as that is

[Crevox]

I agree that balancing the other melee jobs around a spell is kind of silly, and maybe they should reconsider that part, but it still doesn't change the fact that Rudra's Storm did too much damage.

The issue isn't rudras itself and created a lot more versatility in end game content which I think might phase thf out.

There was no "versatility." Everyone started playing THF because Rudra's Storm was overpowered. Now it's getting nerfed. Yay.

(which I would personally suggest buffing other DD jobs).

I would rather not all the content in the game be melted like Rudra's Storm is doing to it right now. Then you're gonna say "but but but Samurai is strong too!" and my response is relax, they said they were adjusting Samurai as well.

Considering something doesn't mean doing something. Not that long ago they were also considering adjusting 2hd weapons to balance with 1hd and we are seeing how that played out... for all you know ardor is there answer in balancing sam as laughable as that is

You're right, and by your logic, they might not even nerf Rudra's. They are "considering" those dagger changes just like they are "considering" SAM changes.

Not that long ago they were also considering adjusting 2hd weapons to balance 1hd

Source? Also, they did buff 2 handed weapons, considering the huge damage augments they get from skirmish.