Job Adjustments in March 2015 Update

[Stompa]

I just noticed that people seemed to be arguing that one or the other doesn't play the job in question and should have no opinion on it, so I thought I'd actually play both jobs and put this to rest so that people can go back to more constructive conversations. The reality is that anecdotal evidence is pretty useless considering that tons of people run parses on this game and there are easily available spreadsheets that tell you exactly what each job can do against each target under each different kind of buff / debuff situation.

So basically, me (or anyone else) saying "I did X amount of damage with X weapon skill" really has no place in the conversation other than to muddy the waters.

As for the size of the weapons, my dagger is bigger than a taru taru Great axe so logically I should do far more damage with it. But that's neither here nor there because the word "Fantasy" is right in the title of the game, meaning that none of this is supposed to be realistic.

I agree that it is fantasy, and I said so in my very first post in this thread, it is a videogame and fantasy etc.

As for muddying the waters, not really, it is a general discussion forum not a Science Conference. If people want to post up and say they still find it amusing and odd when light weapons out-damage heavy weapons, they are perfectly within their rights to do so.

If a forum only allows people with maths degrees to post nothing but spreadsheets, and anyone else posting casual fun comments based on personal experiences, gets relentlessly and mercilessly trolled for it, in the most tenacious and pedantic manner possible, then what you will have is most people leaving that forum and all you will have left on the forum is like five maths graduates comparing spreadsheets. If that is what you want, good luck to you.

I'm more of an "inclusivity" kind of person, I think anyone, child or adult, amateur or pro, should be allowed to post whatever they want so long as it is on topic and not offensive. I noticed people talking about dagger ws being op in this thread, and I just chimed in with lol I do have trouble visualising dagger outdamaging greataxe - ever, at all.

And if your dagger really is bigger than a taru gaxe, I should really like to see your dagger. Not that this inaccurate point is relevant anyway, since I was comparing different weapons I used on my character, where the dagger is a tiny light weapon and the gaxe is a large heavy weapon. I'm sure somebody can find new ways to attack my original point, but I'm so bored of defending my perfectly innocent original post, I bid you all farewell.

[bazookatooth]

I agree that it is fantasy, and I said so in my very first post in this thread, it is a videogame and fantasy etc.

As for muddying the waters, not really, it is a general discussion forum not a Science Conference. If people want to post up and say they still find it amusing and odd when light weapons out-damage heavy weapons, they are perfectly within their rights to do so.

If a forum only allows people with maths degrees to post nothing but spreadsheets, and anyone else posting casual fun comments based on personal experiences, gets relentlessly and mercilessly trolled for it, in the most tenacious and pedantic manner possible, then what you will have is most people leaving that forum and all you will have left on the forum is like five maths graduates comparing spreadsheets. If that is what you want, good luck to you.

I'm more of an "inclusivity" kind of person, I think anyone, child or adult, amateur or pro, should be allowed to post whatever they want so long as it is on topic and not offensive. I noticed people talking about dagger ws being op in this thread, and I just chimed in with lol I do have trouble visualising dagger outdamaging greataxe - ever, at all.

And if your dagger really is bigger than a taru gaxe, I should really like to see your dagger. Not that this inaccurate point is relevant anyway, since I was comparing different weapons I used on my character, where the dagger is a tiny light weapon and the gaxe is a large heavy weapon. I'm sure somebody can find new ways to attack my original point, but I'm so bored of defending my perfectly innocent original post, I bid you all farewell.

But you didn't just make a fun innocent post. You made a post suggesting that something negative should be done to some very popular jobs that would hurt a lot of people and devalue the effort they've put into those jobs. In another time or place, that comment would have probably come off just as you intended, but in this discussion, people's enjoyment is on the line. I think that we can both agree that whatever your intention was in making that post, it didn't come off as amusing to the people who fear that they will lose the ability to play their favorite jobs and it's probably better to just move on and stop trying to defend it.

For what it's worth, I think discourse is a really good way to learn and build. The forums would be relatively useless if everyone just waited for the devs to disseminate info and then applauded them for it. So let's all try and learn something from this.

[Calatilla]

SAM has always been SE`s baby, so they're not going to nerf that job even if it could pop out 99k Fudo's naked. Rudra's needs toning down a bit I suppose but I don't understand their decision to nerf other dagger weaponskills as well.

I just hope they don't kill THF outright by nerfing them into the ground, which imo is unwarranted. But with SE's track record and their opinion on Treasure Hunter being THF's most powerful Trait I don't hold out much hope for the job after this adjustment.

[Atomic_Skull]

The weapon skill adjustments in June and December of 2014 strived to shine light on weapon skills that were not being used as much anymore and also to increase the range of options available. However, as a result, the stats for weapon skills with TP damage modifiers became much more prominent.

I would like to do everything I can to preserve the special characteristic of these weapon skills that allow you to deal large amounts of damage when you save TP; however, if we continue onward with the current multiplier, I feel it would be difficult to create balance with the other types of weapons. Due to this, I believe it is necessary to slightly reduce the multiplier.

Mercy Stroke is not modded by TP so why is it being nerfed then?

[Nebo]

Mercy Stroke is not modded by TP so why is it being nerfed then?

Lack of competence, mostly....possibly mixed with a distinct lack of experience with actual gameplay.

[Atomic_Skull]

Lack of competence, mostly....possibly mixed with a distinct lack of experience with actual gameplay.

I think the real reason may be a demented notion that they can roll back the dagger buff and revive THF as an "enmity control" job re:

enmity will have an increase cap and enmity gained from damage dealt will be adjusted, making a party's enmity levels easier to manage.

They're also postponing Ardor while still nerfing THF so that excuse was an obvious lie. But then they're not going to just come out and say "sorry guys no job can be allowed to come close to SAM"

I have a bad bad feeling that after this nerf THF will end up actually weaker than it was before the 1H buff.

My prediction for post nerf dagger WS:

Rudra's Storm ftp 1.0 / 2.2 / 4.0

Mercy Stroke ftp 2.0

Shark Bite ftp 1.0 / 2.0 / 2.5

Mandalic Stab ftp 0.7 / 1.2 / 2.0

I hope I'm wrong but I have a bad feeling I'm not far off.

[Nebo]

Either way its bad for us. I suspect it won't be that severe, but any kind enmity "contol" on THF is largely based on damage dealt with Trick Attack, which is getting lowered along with the enmity generated from physical damage. So our ability to plant hate on a tank is getting efffectively double nerfed. Slightly less so vs other DD's but relative to mages and tanks it will likely be even more irrelevant than before.

A lot depends on the "how much" for a lot of these updates.

[Atomic_Skull]

I really don't see why Mercy Stroke needs to be nerfed, it was only increased from ftp 3.0 to ftp 5.0 it's not TP modded and it's not like the greeter moogle is handing out free Mandaus to every bandwagon THF.

I worry that rather than going back to the pre buff situation where Mercy Stroke was stronger than Rudras at 100% TP and Rudra's only overtook it after 200% they'll keep the current relationship where Rudras is stronger than Mercy Stroke always with the addition that you now have to have 200% TP with Rudras to do decent damage so that Mercy Stroke ends up being a useless WS.


As far as one shotting wanted battles, there are lots of jobs you can sub THF to and do that with. DRK/THF and Torcleaver for example.

[Nebo]

Or SMN with proper buffs, or several others, etc.

It's probably something like they want to keep a similar heirarchy of SA/TA dagger WS so they are nerfing them all to keep their current relative power level.

IE: Arbitrary reasoning that isn't based on actual game play but is being implemented based on some random policy or overarching lore edict that doesn't make much sense. Just like so many other decisions they've made in the past (PUP being on mage gear etc.)

It's either that or we are royally screwed. Something like our new power level will be something lower than current level shark bite...

edit:

BRB, leveling SAM

[Atomic_Skull]

Or SMN with proper buffs, or several others, etc.

It's probably something like they want to keep a similar heirarchy of SA/TA dagger WS so they are nerfing them all to keep their current relative power level.

IE: Arbitrary reasoning that isn't based on actual game play but is being implemented based on some strategic or overarching lore edict that doesn't make much sense. Just like so many other decisions they've made in the past (PUP being on mage gear etc.)

It's either that or we are royally screwed. Something like our new power level will be something lower than current level shark bite...

edit:

BRB, leveling SAM

Yup I'm pretty sure they're going to do to THF what was done to RNG back in 2005.