Job Adjustments in March 2015 Update

[Ulth]

Where did I ask for a SMN nerf? Also when we talk about job nerfs, its about job potential. I'm happy to point out that the THF job (mythic or otherwise) cannot do that kind of damage on that content level and that no one is crying SMN nerf.

Whether or not people play a job to its potential (or how many) or not has no bearing on what that jobs potential actually is.

My greater point is that most of the people crying that THF is OP, are really unqualified to be making those assertions. Mostly becuase they have no idea what other jobs are really capable of and are basing these remarks off their own experiences...where 99% of the time they are just incapable of pushing whichever job to its potential in the first place.

Pretty much this. Thf isn't op, just lots of people like playing it. Lots of love goes into finding best in slot thf's sets. You should see how heated the debates get on ffxiah. And even if you think it's easier to gear thf to do okay damage, when it comes to balance that should be adjusting the upper limit of the job, and the upper limit of thf is far from op. I don't like having my favorite job being the bandwagon job right now, but I don't want it to be nerfed into nothing.

I must say though after watching the video I'm very impressed with that 4 man group. Run served multiple purposes, tank, opening skillchains, and used gambit to make the mobs weaker to fire. The geo's Malaise also helped with the extra magic damage. I didn't pay much attention to the cor, but I'm half surprised they didn't have them go /nin for Hyoton: Ni. Also that was the best smn I ever seen. I guess that is to be expected from a mythic smn.

[PlumbGame]

Samurai Fantasy 11. I knew their original comments were to nerf thief so sam could stay supreme. Too bad their logic for not nerfing sam falls into the same category as thief. If I were to SA rudras on something like an incursion boss, don't I risk the same potential for death as samurai standing in front of a boss for overwhelm bonuses since I normally have threat, how about a thief having to properly time TA rudras as to not get severely hurt from a TP move? Doesn't it require a parties support for me to do darkness uninterrupted?

[MilkMansKid]

Total BS. I'd say more but it wouldn't matter anyway as we can see from that post.

[Alhanelem]

Pretty much this. Thf isn't op, just lots of people like playing it. Lots of love goes into finding best in slot thf's sets. You should see how heated the debates get on ffxiah. And even if you think it's easier to gear thf to do okay damage, when it comes to balance that should be adjusting the upper limit of the job, and the upper limit of thf is far from op. I don't like having my favorite job being the bandwagon job right now, but I don't want it to be nerfed into nothing.

I must say though after watching the video I'm very impressed with that 4 man group. Run served multiple purposes, tank, opening skillchains, and used gambit to make the mobs weaker to fire. The geo's Malaise also helped with the extra magic damage. I didn't pay much attention to the cor, but I'm half surprised they didn't have them go /nin for Hyoton: Ni. Also that was the best smn I ever seen. I guess that is to be expected from a mythic smn.

THF is OP (or more accurately, Rudra's is OP). You're only saying it's not OP because you're a THF.

[Nebo]

THF is OP (or more accurately, Rudra's is OP). You're only saying it's not OP because you're a THF.

As much as I dislike this non-argument, I'll reply with another one. You only think THF is OP because you are a lolPUP (j/k)

Also they aren't nerfing just Rudra. They are nerfing all major THF WS...which would be fine if, comparatively, our melee damage wasn't weak, unstacked WS weren't weak, and meaningful WS damage wasn't dependant on positional requirements AND restricted by recast timer bottlnecks (Hint: this means haste doesn't do for THF nearly what it does to increase other DD's overall WS damage).

Like our OP Samurai bretherin we have to take risks to stay in front of the mob to TAWS and then to inevitably take hate when we spike hate SAWS. And of course, because its tough to position mobs and players in certain content, we don't even get to exploit SA/TA on recast in many events (people like to quote every ~30 seconds...in practice, it is never that often on average). Did I mention our defense and HP are crap?

Here's the thing, most DDs are bad DDs. That's not intended to be insulting. It's just the reality. So when most DD's make less than ideal food/gear/buff choices, hold tp when they shouldn't, have poor timing, etc the forced crit (effective ATT increase) from SA/TA Rudra seems AMAZING. There are quite a lot of people that operate in that low-mid range (there are also quite a lot of players unaware that they fall into this range), and to them, RUDRA is OP.

But when DDs play to their full potential, cap Att/Def ratio, cap acc, gear intelligently, use proper buffs/food/macros/skill/timing etc, then you start to see how OP the THF job itself really isn't.

The only part of this equation that really deserves any mathematical mention at all is skillchain damage, and THF isn't even the best job at creating high SC damage. In addition, you still (mostly) need other players to open skillchains and position SA/TA so attributing all that skillchain damage soley to the THF is not something I agree with. I don't see anything OP at all about rewarding parties with extra damage for such strategic and positional requirements (attached to fairly long recast timers) either.

At any rate, to solve this issue, they are adding a RDM spell (becuase that'll fix everything ) to increase SC damage even further and nerfing THF into the ground to compensate. Not an intelligent choice.

Meanwhile SAM being Over powered is working as intended (capping attack is hard for the dev team aparently?) and SMN is two-shotting Wopket in 8 seconds flat by closing light skillchains with Flaming Crush ...no one really plays with support jobs anyway so that shouldn't be too Over powered... right?

[Zeargi]

Meanwhile SAM is working as intended and SMN is two shotting Wopket...no one really plays with support jobs anyway so that shouldn't be too OP, right?

And yet they don't get invites.

[Nebo]

And yet they don't get invites.

Most people are unaware that SMN is capable of this. Most people are happy to regurgitate things they read on the internet and only use strategies that someone else thought up. Most people think THF is over powered and nerfing it into the ground like this is a good idea.../shrug ...what can you do?

[Ulth]

And yet they don't get invites.

I think you mean they don't get shouted for. Which is good because if you shout for a smn you would probably get one with only the 115 sachet and no ilvl armor.

btw just watched a video of that smn doing 143 incursion. Diabolos and lots of fudo spams, but I don't see any rudra's being used. Go figure.

[Crevox]

The reason SMN does not get invites and that SMN is not often considered "OP" is because that setup requires very specific buffs, debuffs, and coordination. Flaming Crush is nowhere near as good unless that specific setup is used with those specific buffs and debuffs, and then Flaming Crush is the only attack that becomes strong at all.

If you were to want to use Flaming Crush like that, you would have to have the very specific setup of jobs, buffs, debuffs, and skillchain setup. It would not easily be applicable to a pug, as the entire group is formed around the SMN doing that. All of the other Summoner abilities remain the same, with Flaming Crush being the only one that really benefits (all the others do only slightly higher damage than normal). In addition, Papesse is basically best in slot for all items for SMN, which requires a mythic weapon, many expensive augments, etc, which is a huge reason the damage is so high as well. This is on top of all the other gear swaps and equipment not used specifically for Flaming Crush.

It also does not work on many monsters, for many reasons, however it does work there. In addition, there are many ways that strategy can easily go wrong, and it's not easily done due to the coordination required between party members and boss mechanics getting in the way.

Flaming Crush, or the abilities/debuffs that buff it to be so strong may need a nerf, yes, but it's not as simple as you think. This does not change the fact that Rudra's needs a nerf, and is getting a nerf.

[Nebo]

Dealing damage with SAMs requires specific buffs and setups too. Its not as if putting a COR GEO and RUN in a party is all that hard. The only difference is melee burn strategy is more popular. I don't necessarily agree that flaming crush needs a nerf either.

But to be clear: This is not a Rudra nerf. This is a Thief nerf. They are targeting all THF skillchain closing SA/TA WS. Mandalic Stab, Rudra Storm, Mercy Stroke and Shark Bite (for reasons unknown) are all getting the nerf bat. Not becuase they need nerfed, not becuase THF WS damage is too high, but becuase of skillchain damage and how strong it would be with the addition of ardor.

It is very very very very very much the wrong adjustment to make. Killing THF WS damage instead of adjusting Skillchains is a mistake. This is going to kill the job again. They should really reconsider this thing.