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Thread: Hachirin-no-Obi

  1. #31
    Player Ulth's Avatar
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    Pretty sure Selindrile meant using wind nukes with wind weather on iceday. In which case Furin Obi would make the bonus from weather always happen, and the penalty from the day stay at the normal rate.
    (2)

  2. #32
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
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    Ulth: I did indeed mean using a wind nuke with weather on say iceday, exactly, I misspoke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Protey View Post
    that makes no sense whatsoever. you just make whatever garbage up that you want, don't you? efficiency has nothing to do with it. it has to do with what is providing more damage and inventory space. why would i fulltime yamabuki when hachirin would give me more damage?

    hachirin is BiS when the appropriate day/weather is on. it does nothing when it isn't and so one must use another waist piece to see any benefit. The "same dif" is the following:

    -use hachirin when it gives a benefit.
    -use another waist when hachirin gives no benefit.

    "I'll be farming up all the obis again to use when it's a wind spell during watersday, and then use hachirin when it's not." why would you use a single element obi to nuke a wind spell on watersday? it would do no extra damage, you might as well have nothing equipped. if by chance it is nuking wind while wind weather you are meaning, then hachirin would provide the same benefit.
    Extrapolate this with any logic at all and you can see what I meant lol, I don't see how I'm making up "any sort of garbge"

    -use hachirin when it gives a benefit.
    -use another waist when hachirin gives no benefit.
    Example -Furin Obi when it's windsday with ice weather, because that's best in slot in such a condition.

    It comes down to: Are you willing to get inventory -1 for the benefit of Hachirin over Yamabuki when the day/weather combo is in your favor? Are you willing to get inventory -8 for the benefit whever just the day or weather is in your favor instead of Hachirin? Are you willing to take inventory -9 for having the chance of not losing MP when the weather combo is in your favor, but still having the other obis when only the weather or day is in your favor?

    This is a question of efficiency, how much inventory/extra effort are you willing to sacrifice for maximum efficiency?

    I ask you the same question. Why would you settle for Yamabuki when the day/weather combo is not in your favor though one of them is active as opposed to using Furin?
    (1)
    Last edited by Selindrile; 03-18-2015 at 05:36 PM.

  3. #33
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    Like I said, it's a combination of damage AND inventory. you have to have yamabuki anyway since even when you have the single element obis there are going to be times when they give no benefit. And it's not efficiency (efficiency as defined: accomplish something with a minimum expenditure of time and effort) as I had to go farm the dark and light obis and get the hachirin synthed. that's extra work that didn't need to be done just so I could have more inventory space. The situation for example of where I want to nuke a wind spell on windsday but have ice weather is very, very rare. I would gladly settle for yamabuki for that situation which has only happened to me maybe two or three times in the 10 years I have been playing this game.
    (0)

  4. #34
    Player Ulth's Avatar
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    It's not a rare occurrence for sch. For sch the odds of it happening is 1/8 of the time.
    (4)

  5. #35
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
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    Yes, the inventory is a tradeoff, I'm arguing that it shouldn't be a matter of weighing the inventory versus the extra situational damage, you're functionally arguing for something to occasionally fail for you when it usually would be applicable, it's hilarious, but also astounding.

    Imagine say Vitivation Tabard lost Fast Cast if it happened to be Dark Weather, and you argued that you liked this function, because you could just use Anhur Robe for precast, because it's close, and for some reason you like this drawback, this is a very similar situation.

    These items were created essentially to reduce inventory clutter, for some of us, they did the opposite, if for no other reason they should be changed.

    Also, since you brought definitions into this:
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/efficiency
    1. the state or quality of being efficient, or able to accomplish something with the least waste of time and effort; competency in performance.

    It admittedly can get a bit murky, but in this case I'm referring to accomplishing say 100,000 damage over the course of a certain amount of time, it is more efficient to use the best nuking piece, rather than the second best, to achieve this goal, sorry for being unspecific but I figured most people could follow that logic.

    Lastly: 2 or 3 times in 10 years? Honestly? I see it all the time in current content, Blu/Sch nuking in Yorcia Skirmish, I put up Windstorm and am extremely annoyed when it's Iceday because my Hachirin is not the best option and I have to change to Yamabuki, and I'm extremely annoyed when I notice it mid-run. For Scholars or those using /Sch it comes up quite frequently, or say using a cure spell in Dynamis on lightsday, or casting a cure spell in Nyzul Isle on darksday, these aren't that rare of occurrences.
    (2)
    Last edited by Selindrile; 03-19-2015 at 12:47 AM.

  6. #36
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulth View Post
    It's not a rare occurrence for sch. For sch the odds of it happening is 1/8 of the time.
    Perhaps more than that, I haven't tested this, but what happens if you have a scholar weather effect that is opposed to the current weather effect and use the obi?

    Say it's ice weather, and you have windstorm up? I assume Hachirin would give you the windstorm bonus and the actual ice weather's detriment, though I haven't tested this myself, but the odds are at least as bad as 1/8th of the time for scholars due to day of the week with elemental storms.
    (0)

  7. #37
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    I only play BLM for nuking and I'm always /rdm. so yea, very very rare for me to have opposing day to weather for the particular nuke. And your analogy with vitivation tabard: what did I get in exchange? you left that part off. I wouldn't advocate for that restriction without getting something worthwhile in return.

    edit: also... who casts cure in dyna and nyzul?!?
    (0)
    Last edited by Protey; 03-19-2015 at 01:07 AM.

  8. #38
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
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    So because this is rare for you, you're against them changing it, because screw everyone else?

    You're advocating this restriction without getting something worthwhile in return, simply FC-2 comparatively, versus the current situations "losing a small amount of elemental damage" in this rare (for you) situation that occurs.

    Who casts cure in Dyna and Nyzul? Thousands of people over the course of the 10 years you cited, and even today, I sometimes go in Blu to cleave when I have a friend who needs a particular piece from a zone, and I have them come as something that can cure me, this is only really for obtaining whatever gear they're after, not for general farming. You'd be surprised at how much damage you can take even at i119 with a crapton of beastmen 2hring you. And in Nyzul when farming tokens, the Brd or Smn who is primarily there to increase our movement speed will occasionally toss cures, and again, over the 10 year history you cited, tons of people.
    (3)

  9. #39
    Player Ulth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selindrile View Post
    Perhaps more than that, I haven't tested this, but what happens if you have a scholar weather effect that is opposed to the current weather effect and use the obi?

    Say it's ice weather, and you have windstorm up? I assume Hachirin would give you the windstorm bonus and the actual ice weather's detriment, though I haven't tested this myself, but the odds are at least as bad as 1/8th of the time for scholars due to day of the week with elemental storms.
    Sch storm spells take precedence over local weather. They do stack with single weather of the same type. Like auroras with aurorastorm will make double weather stellar glare, but if you use auroastorm in outer raz the dark weather will be over written with a single weather auroras.
    (2)

  10. #40
    Player detlef's Avatar
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    My gripe is that the Gorget and Belt have no downside but the Obi does.
    (4)

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