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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selindrile View Post
    Or, not not do any of that, and let you mentally realize you're combining them both, like you do with the grip, you don't wield the grip in one hand and the weapon in the other either.
    i edited my post, but it'd take 4 slots. 2 h2h weapons, 2 wraps.
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
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    These "wraps" are no more specifically in your off hand than the grip, I don't see why it would take any more slots than just mentally allowing it to happen as you do with the grip, the H2H weapon is just logically in both hands, as is your 2H, you wrap the "wraps" in your sub around each hand under the H2H, just as you attach it to the Greatsword or whatever.

    There is such a thing as close enough in game terms, for Goodness sake we clearly wear several armor pieces that have belts showing, and then have a belt slot that doesn't show, we just have to get close enough logically to feel somewhat immersed, and having a H2H sub item would not detract from immersion for 99.99% of the playerbase, and would provide far more than that with a positive experience.

    I realize you're probably trolling ;p but still feel the need to point it all out in case anyone takes you seriously.
    (3)

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selindrile View Post
    These "wraps" are no more specifically in your off hand than the grip, I don't see why it would take any more slots than just mentally allowing it to happen as you do with the grip, the H2H weapon is just logically in both hands, as is your 2H, you wrap the "wraps" in your sub around each hand under the H2H, just as you attach it to the Greatsword or whatever.

    There is such a thing as close enough in game terms, for Goodness sake we clearly wear several armor pieces that have belts showing, and then have a belt slot that doesn't show, we just have to get close enough logically to feel somewhat immersed, and having a H2H sub item would not detract from immersion for 99.99% of the playerbase, and would provide far more than that with a positive experience.

    I realize you're probably trolling ;p but still feel the need to point it all out in case anyone takes you seriously.
    a 2H weapon is 1 weapon. H2H is two weapons. I am not trolling. Look at your character with H2H, it clearly is two weapons.
    (0)

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protey View Post
    a 2H weapon is 1 weapon. H2H is two weapons. I am not trolling. Look at your character with H2H, it clearly is two weapons.
    Look at your character's 5 fingers on each hand, yet we can only wear 2 rings. Look at the cloak that you're wearing, now look at your model. Where is it?! It doesn't matter that H2H is "two weapons" because it only takes up one slot. There's nothing (except for some spaghetti code and "balance concerns") stopping SE from adding grips to the offhand slot for H2H. If H2H actually took up both slots like you suggest, then sure, there'd be changes that needed to be made to make it possible. That's not the case though. SE could decide tomorrow to flip the switch and say grips can function with H2H and one handed weapons now. There'd be 0 immersion concerns unless you're just wanting to be a twat and not come to terms with what applying a grip to a handle of any weapon would consist of.
    (3)
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malithar View Post
    Look at your character's 5 fingers on each hand, yet we can only wear 2 rings. Look at the cloak that you're wearing, now look at your model. Where is it?! It doesn't matter that H2H is "two weapons" because it only takes up one slot. There's nothing (except for some spaghetti code and "balance concerns") stopping SE from adding grips to the offhand slot for H2H. If H2H actually took up both slots like you suggest, then sure, there'd be changes that needed to be made to make it possible. That's not the case though. SE could decide tomorrow to flip the switch and say grips can function with H2H and one handed weapons now. There'd be 0 immersion concerns unless you're just wanting to be a twat and not come to terms with what applying a grip to a handle of any weapon would consist of.
    No, it's not being a twat, it's clearly 2 weapons and it should be taking up 2 slots. The only way H2H should be allowed to have wraps, grips, or w/e is if dual-wielding 1Hers can too.
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  6. #16
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
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    Selindrile
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    Hand slot items are clearly two gloves. Feet slot items are clearly two boots, why are you not up in arms about them taking up two slots, one for each hand/foot? I apologize if you're honestly this obtuse, but it really comes off as trolling.

    Balance and logistics wise, perhaps Mnk should've been allowed to equip a weapon on each hand, and have had H2H weapons work more like 1H weapons, but that's not the way they designed it, they're far more likely to add something in the sub slot than redesign how H2H weapons work now, honestly the real argument for doing something like this is just so that monks can get the visceral enjoyment of having another slot filled with something useful, so stop being ridiculous and argue an actual point.

    Reasons to create a sub item for H2H users:
    1.) Give H2H users the mental enjoyment of using that slot.
    2.) Provides design opportunities for the dev team to do something new.
    3.) Give H2H users a slight buff, they are actually falling behind most in the DD department, though whether it's really called for overall or not is debatable as they do have some good upsides.

    Reasons against creating such an item.
    1.) Inventory cost. (My inventory is at all time crisis levels.)
    2.) Development priority cost. (what would the time spent on these items been spent on instead)
    3.) You could make a balance argument that Mnks are still strong and therefore do not need another item, though personally I think this is debatable, and I'd argue that they could use a minor buff.
    (2)

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selindrile View Post
    Hand slot items are clearly two gloves. Feet slot items are clearly two boots, why are you not up in arms about them taking up two slots, one for each hand/foot? I apologize if you're honestly this obtuse, but it really comes off as trolling.

    Balance and logistics wise, perhaps Mnk should've been allowed to equip a weapon on each hand, and have had H2H weapons work more like 1H weapons, but that's not the way they designed it, they're far more likely to add something in the sub slot than redesign how H2H weapons work now, honestly the real argument for doing something like this is just so that monks can get the visceral enjoyment of having another slot filled with something useful, so stop being ridiculous and argue an actual point.

    Reasons to create a sub item for H2H users:
    1.) Give H2H users the mental enjoyment of using that slot.
    2.) Provides design opportunities for the dev team to do something new.
    3.) Give H2H users a slight buff, they are actually falling behind most in the DD department, though whether it's really called for overall or not is debatable as they do have some good upsides.

    Reasons against creating such an item.
    1.) Inventory cost. (My inventory is at all time crisis levels.)
    2.) Development priority cost. (what would the time spent on these items been spent on instead)
    3.) You could make a balance argument that Mnks are still strong and therefore do not need another item, though personally I think this is debatable, and I'd argue that they could use a minor buff.
    It's not obtuse and it's not trolling. why should H2H get a wrap/grip, but not dual wielders?

    edit: and yes technically SE should have put 2 hand slots and 2 feet slots. What all of your arguments sound like to me is you are trying to take advantage of poor programming on SE's part. They should have had the same icon in the main and sub slot. If for some reason they do decide to allow H2H a wrap/grip, then they better figure a way for dual wielders to have it too. Because both are swinging two weapons.
    (0)
    Last edited by Protey; 01-03-2015 at 01:01 PM.

  8. #18
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
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    Same reason 2handers do, variability, ability to customize more about their TP set with that other slot, as 1handers can with two weapons and 2handers can with grips, and technically, H2H users are not swinging two weapons, they're swinging the same weapon at least two times, technically speaking, it's one item, much like boots, or gloves, even though the icon shows two. The graphic could consist of forty two visually distinct items, and it would still be one technically, a necklace that consists of 7 beads is not seven items, it it one.
    (1)
    Last edited by Selindrile; 01-03-2015 at 02:33 PM.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selindrile View Post
    Same reason 2handers do, variability, ability to customize more about their TP set with that other slot, as 1handers can with two weapons and 2handers can with grips, and technically, H2H users are not swinging two weapons, they're swinging the same weapon at least two times, technically speaking, it's one item, much like boots, or gloves, even though the icon shows two. The graphic could consist of forty two visually distinct items, and it would still be one technically, a necklace that consists of 7 beads is not seven items, it it one.
    no h2h is swinging two weapons, when you are engaged against a target your left fist swings and then your right fist does. If it was one weapon, only one fist would swing. Another way we know that it is 2 weapons is that Spharai will only proc when the main hand hits, never the secondary hit.
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    Last edited by Protey; 01-03-2015 at 03:27 PM.

  10. #20
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
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    No h2h is swinging one weapon with both hands, not unlike 2h, it is the exact same item, the left fist swings with this item, then the right fist swings with this item, each process points at the same object in the code, looking at it from a programming perspective, which is the most basic level we can get to in FFXI terms.

    Also, the triple damage will not activate on double or triple attacks from the main hand either, that doesn't mean it was swung somehow in the offhand either lol, it simply means only the first attack in the attack round has the capability of proccing, it happens to always be one hand, because that hand always attacks first.
    (1)

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