dagger ws too OP?

[Atomic_Skull]

Sounds like no direction. A few months ago they didn't say a thing about their plan to make THF DNC BLU top DD in this game, I guess the direction has changed. It happens a lot recently, the design direction of job point system changed, and the design direction of 1h job changed. It just....change a lot. I suppose I should just QQ for my jobs in this game and hope for a random OP buff as well.

You mean like they did with 2H back in 2008?

[FrankReynolds]

Hard content gets easier in every MMO....but only as ilv goes up or better gear release. In this game hard content gets much easier without getting higher ilv.

That is so that players are adequately geared when the next level of content comes out. It's well documented in numerous dev posts.

If you bother to read the discussion, you'd know that isn't the case at all. 1h jobs don't suck and they don't need to be the best DD in this game.

Says you. There have been points in the game where dual wielding jobs were the preferred DD classes and there was nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with dual wield jobs being good DDs. You just prefer 2h jobs. That's your opinion. I've yet to see anything suggesting that 2 hand jobs being the best is in any way necessary or better in any way.

[Tennotsukai]

I'm sorry everyone, but ever since that 1h update thf has been top dd parser in every event I've been to. Sam is close to top as well. Perhaps, what needs done is just more tweaking of the ws's. I honestly don't feel sam, mnk, rng, dnc, or thf need anymore buffs. They all have good dps or something that benefits them like hateless dmg, high hp, or something or other. Jobs like war, drg, drk, nin, pup, & blu need help. I know someone may think blu is good, but dnc destroys them now and they're both versatile jobs.

[Nebo]

It doesn't suprise me that people see more THF winning parses now. Those that endeavor play THF to its DD potential have always had to work harder than other DD's to put out good numbers. Generally, I find the ones that do are obsessing over spread sheets about their gear sets, vs various targets, optimal food, etc. They always had to go that extra mile to prove that they could provide relevant DPS to a group. They always feel like they have something to prove when occupying a DD slot.

A THF like that, just jumped straight to the front of the pack in terms of DPS because they finally gave us a WS that works synergistically with our JA's and skillchaining instead of punishing us. I would point to the fact that several other DD jobs are ahead of both THF and DNC right now in terms of DPS potential, but people just see the big rudra number that comes with holding TP and stacking JA's that have recast timers.

All that big WS damage does is servve to mitigate the fact that we cannot just unleash powerful WS at 1000TP as we wish without concern for position or recast timers like other DDs can. We have to pick our moment and our shot. There is nothing wrong with rewarding that type of strategic DPS play. Other DDs can spam much more powerful WS than our unstacked WS in that time frame.

What's really broken about all of this is the skill chain component. BTW, SAM is still winning that game by a mile. They can solo that shit all day long. Although I suspect that a mythic THF with AM 3 and buffs could replicate this to some degree now.

All this to say, THF is a DD, DNC is a DD, BLU is a DD, WAR is a DD, DRK is a DD, SAM is a DD, MNK is a DD, etc. They all have utility aspects to them. The point is that when a DD has DPS that is not competetive, their utility no longer matters. There is no amount of utility that can overcome that lack of dps. So it's optimal that they can all deal comparable damage, offer different utility aspects and cater to different play styles to appeal to a variety of players.

It appears to me that they are starting to realise this and move in that direction. I am more hopeful than I have ever been with recent updates and conversations about pet jobs, etc. This is the best time I've had in FFXI in a very long time.

[Nebo]

I know someone may think blu is good, but dnc destroys them now and they're both versatile jobs.

I don't know who told you this, but someone lied to you. BLU > DNC atm

[Zarchery]

Let's just make every attack, weapon skill, and spell in existence do the same amount of damage to every mob all the time. Then we will finally achieve true balance. There is no other way.

[Tennotsukai]

I don\\'t know who told you this, but someone lied to you. BLU > DNC atm

Yup, a reputable player from ffxiah blu forums. Still though, thf dominates now

[dasva]

Of course in situations where SA/TA become difficult to use dps drops sharply

[Atomic_Skull]

It doesn't suprise me that people see more THF winning parses now. Those that endeavor play THF to its DD potential have always had to work harder than other DD's to put out good numbers. Generally, I find the ones that do are obsessing over spread sheets about their gear sets, vs various targets, optimal food, etc. They always had to go that extra mile to prove that they could provide relevant DPS to a group. They always feel like they have something to prove when occupying a DD slot.

Meanwhile SAM can just faceroll and still outparse virtually any job save for THF now.

[Afania]

What's really broken about all of this is the skill chain component. BTW, SAM is still winning that game by a mile.

If you read OP's concern, it's mostly because of SC(although he didn't actually mention SC)

We have someone posted 60k rudra SS in this thread, and I've seen rudra did 99999 darkness SC.

In theory, rudra+ SC can do over 150k dmg if you engage with 3k TP.....which is perfectly doable with regain roll.

Now if you have 2 THF doing 2 darkness SC, that's 300k dmg.

Now if you use wildcard to reset JA and give them 3000 TP again, you can do that twice.

Leaden+ 1st THF's rudra= darkness. Leaden + 2nd THF's rudra= darkness. Wildcard and repeat this process again, that's 600k dmg in 1.5 min with THF THF COR as 3 DD setup.

I haven't try this personally, but if it's doable then it sounds insanely broken. Simply because, if you use a different 3 DD setup, such as DRK DRK DRK, you aren't going to deal 600k dmg in 1.5 min unless there are tricks/gimmicks that I don't know about.

Of course you can argue that "600k dmg in 1.5 min? Big deal. SE can just add NM with 2 million HP."

The issue is that you're going to have THF THF COR still kill this 2M HP boss much faster than a different DD setup, such as DRK x3.

I don't know if this is intentional, if it's not intentional, then it's an exploit.

If it's intentional, then it's clearly a design flaw.

There is no amount of utility that can overcome that lack of dps.

This is simply not true. Before Leaden gets 100% AGI mod, I usually only parse around 60%~80% of another DD in delve on COR. Sometimes even lower than 60% if the DD is really, really elite. Even then I still get /tell for invite very often, simply because chaos+defense down from COR can make up the remaining 40% dmg gap. Therefore 1 COR 2 DD> 3 DD, even if the COR doesn't outparse the 3rd DD.

Utility CAN overcome the lack of DPS, period. Anyone believe otherwise is just...biased.

All your other arguments basically just boil down to wanting 1 handed jobs to suck because in your head 2 handers are better.

I love how this discussion turned into "you're just a THF or 1h hater" "You just want SAM to be the best" if I think rudra needs a nerf. If you bother to check this forum and BG, I've been saying that SAM and it's solo SC mechanics is clearly a design flaw and it needs a nerf. When some ppl abuse indi-malaise for 70k+ leaden salute on AH, I said it needs a nerf as well.

So, I'm not a 2h DD hater even if I said SAM solo SC mechanics needs a nerf. I'm not a COR or magical DD hater even if I said Indi-malaise mechanics needs a nerf. But if I think rudra spike dmg is a design flaw, I'm somehow a 1h DD hater?

The amount of bias in this thread is beyond my comprehension.

SE has been nerfing certain game mechanics that made clearing the content too easy for past 10 years, DRK was nerfed, SCH was nerfed, WAR was nerfed, and many other jobs....I don't understand why can't rudra get a nerf.