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  1. #21
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    628
    Character
    Selindrile
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    My CDCs are far from bad, 6k~12k I'd say though getting over 10k is rare, I'm just sad because Thf pulled so far ahead, and we didn't follow up there with them, it's not like Blu is bad, it's pretty close to Sam atm, when both are geared similarly, and not counting SC damage. But Thfs with gear a bit behind me now, are pulling ahead of everyone pretty handily, not the end of the world, just wish we would've skyrocketed like them.

    Is just some envy, I saw a 30k Rudra's, and was like, I wanna do that ; ;, lol.
    (1)

  2. #22
    Player Ataraxia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    146
    Character
    Angelicsmile
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Grekumah View Post
    As some of you may have already noticed in the version update notes, Dancing Edge, Exenterator, and Chant du Cygne were removed from the list of weapon skills that received potency increases. The original plan was to both increase their potency as well as have their bonuses apply to the each hit of the weapon skill; however, after testing this further the team came to the conclusion that only making the latter adjustment would reach the improvements they wanted and they decided to not improve the potency as well.

    Apologies that this was not clarified beforehand and we appreciate your understanding.

    Keep up the good work Grekumah. All people that play Thief and Dancer really love this update. =)
    Paladin and Blue Mage is super fun to play now and more powerful than before.
    (1)

  3. #23
    Player Ataraxia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    146
    Character
    Angelicsmile
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    30k Rudra's storm is at 3000 tp i think the only job that can reach that high of damage is Thief with mythic dagger.

    Dasva post in bg-wiki.

    Expiciaon: D130 weapon. 22 fstr. 210 str. 221 dex 226 int. 175 wsc. 327 base dmg w/ sa

    1000 TP: 3851, 3730, 3772, 3898, 3806

    2000: 9543, 9673, 9397, 9619, 9341

    3000: 12541, 12434, 11845, 12400, 11973

    Savage blade: D130 weapon. 22 fstr. 210 str 174 mnd.. 192 wsc. 344 base dmg w/ sa

    1000 TP: 4197, 4037, 4294, 4246, 4210

    2000: 11024, 10703, 11016, 10844, 10685

    3000: 14592, 14660, 14248, 14356, 14676


    Savage Blade use to suck so bad but now it's good.
    (0)

  4. #24
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    453
    Quote Originally Posted by Ataraxia View Post
    Savage blade: D130 weapon. 22 fstr. 210 str 174 mnd.. 192 wsc. 344 base dmg w/ sa

    1000 TP: 4197, 4037, 4294, 4246, 4210

    2000: 11024, 10703, 11016, 10844, 10685

    3000: 14592, 14660, 14248, 14356, 14676


    Savage Blade use to suck so bad but now it's good.
    with #s like that, you will do more overall damage saving to 3000 TP (2750 with moonshade), as 14.5k from 3000 TP is about 3.45 times greater than 4.2k from 1000TP
    (0)

  5. #25
    Player Byrth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,172
    Character
    Byrth
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Well, those were all single-hits because they were SA'd. In reality Savage Blade is 2 hits single wielding or 3 hits dual wielding + additional attacks. Best bang for your buck is actually 2000 TP (10.25 fTP), but even that waypoint is questionably better than 1.0:
    4 + 2 (DW) + 2*X (2*Multi-attack rate) = fTP per 1000 TP at 1000 TP
    (10.25 + 2 (DW) + 2*X (2*Multi-attack rate))/2 = fTP per 1000 TP at 2000 TP
    6 + 2*X = 6.125 + X
    X = 0.125

    So if you are Dual Wielding and have some combination of DA, TA, and QA that gets you at least an extra 0.125 swings per hand, you are better off WSing at 1000 TP than 2000 TP. Also, Moonshade Earring will skew this even further towards 1000TP, as you can see below.



    Rudra's is even more heavily weighted towards the 2000 TP anchorpoint:
    6 + 1 (DW) + 2*X (2*Multi-attack rate) = fTP per 1000 TP at 1000 TP
    (15 + 1 (DW) + 2*X (2*Multi-attack rate))/2 = fTP per 1000 TP at 2000 TP

    7 + 2*X = 8 + X
    X = 100%
    So you would need +100% Multi-attack to make it better to WS at 1000 TP than 2000 TP. Also, this is assuming equal weighting between the hits which is only true for unstacked Rudra's. Stacked Rudra's will even more lopsidedly favor 2000 TP.

    The story changes with Moonshade factored in:
    8.25 + 1 (DW) + 2*X (2*Multi-attack rate) = fTP per 1000 TP at 1000 TP with Moonshade
    (15 + 1 (DW) + 2*X (2*Multi-attack rate))/1.75 = fTP per 1000 TP at 1750 TP with Moonshade

    9.25 + 2*X = 16/1.75 + 2*X/1.75
    6*X/7 = -12.5%
    Because Moonshade offers such a significant fTP boost at 1000 TP, it shifts the balance greatly in favor of WSing sooner.



    It should be noted that the above analysis ignores the time that it takes to WS. If you WS less frequently, you are subject to less WS delay. When I just plug everything in to the spreadsheet, I get optimal net DPS at 1606 TP (Dancer vs. Tojil) with Moonshade and Terpsichore AM3.
    1000 TP = 1807.9
    1606 TP = 1895.4
    1750 TP = 1864.5
    There is only a 5% DPS difference between 1000 and 1606 TP, however, while previously the difference would have been massive. These WSs made our jobs easier to play, and lazy DDs won't be as heavily penalized as previously.
    (2)

  6. #26
    Player Vinedrai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    76
    Character
    Vinedrius
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Byrth View Post
    Rudra's is even more heavily weighted towards the 2000 TP anchorpoint:
    6 + 1 (DW) + 2*X (2*Multi-attack rate) = fTP per 1000 TP at 1000 TP
    (15 + 1 (DW) + 2*X (2*Multi-attack rate))/2 = fTP per 1000 TP at 2000 TP

    7 + 2*X = 8 + X
    X = 100%
    So you would need +100% Multi-attack to make it better to WS at 1000 TP than 2000 TP. Also, this is assuming equal weighting between the hits which is only true for unstacked Rudra's. Stacked Rudra's will even more lopsidedly favor 2000 TP.

    The story changes with Moonshade factored in:
    8.25 + 1 (DW) + 2*X (2*Multi-attack rate) = fTP per 1000 TP at 1000 TP with Moonshade
    (15 + 1 (DW) + 2*X (2*Multi-attack rate))/1.75 = fTP per 1000 TP at 1750 TP with Moonshade

    9.25 + 2*X = 16/1.75 + 2*X/1.75
    6*X/7 = -12.5%
    Because Moonshade offers such a significant fTP boost at 1000 TP, it shifts the balance greatly in favor of WSing sooner.
    So basically should we ws at 1000 unstacked and 1750 stacked or 1000 regardless of SA/JA if we have moonshade?
    (0)

  7. #27
    Player Byrth's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,172
    Character
    Byrth
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    For Rudra's, you should do something between 1000 and 1750 unstacked. If you're going to stack it, you should probably do 1750 and shouldn't feel bad about TPing a bit over waiting on timers, particularly if you're going to be able to skillchain.

    If you are playing cooperatively with other players and attribute all the skillchain damage to whoever closes it, THF is the best DD in the game right now.
    (2)

  8. 12-15-2014 06:15 AM

  9. #28
    Player Ulth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Selindrile View Post
    My CDCs are far from bad, 6k~12k I'd say though getting over 10k is rare, I'm just sad because Thf pulled so far ahead, and we didn't follow up there with them, it's not like Blu is bad, it's pretty close to Sam atm, when both are geared similarly, and not counting SC damage. But Thfs with gear a bit behind me now, are pulling ahead of everyone pretty handily, not the end of the world, just wish we would've skyrocketed like them.

    Is just some envy, I saw a 30k Rudra's, and was like, I wanna do that ; ;, lol.
    CDC > Sinker Drill > Rudra's

    blu + thf = bff
    (1)

  10. #29
    Player Nebo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Thief
    Posts
    475
    Character
    Nebo
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Selindrile View Post
    My CDCs are far from bad, 6k~12k I'd say though getting over 10k is rare, I'm just sad because Thf pulled so far ahead, and we didn't follow up there with them, it's not like Blu is bad, it's pretty close to Sam atm, when both are geared similarly, and not counting SC damage. But Thfs with gear a bit behind me now, are pulling ahead of everyone pretty handily, not the end of the world, just wish we would've skyrocketed like them.

    Is just some envy, I saw a 30k Rudra's, and was like, I wanna do that ; ;, lol.
    A lot of people crying nerf (not saying you are but this is a growing trend and its scaring me lol) for Rudra's I think are just eyballing that singular 30k number and feeling like THFs are crapping those out non stop. Unstacked vs VT Woh Gates bats, for example, at ~1000TP even with /WAR, RCB and RDM/BRD Trusts is in the range of 6-9K average.

    To get a 30k Rudra a THF has hold TP, use JA's with recast timers and fulfill positional requirements. What this update did was make it more worth while to do this, rather than being punished for it. Before, a stacked ws did roughly the same damage as a comparably geared DD WS which, imo, is pretty unreasonable given the hoops you have to jump through to make them work.

    Now THF has a decent unstacked WS and one that actually performs well as legit spike damage and a meaningful skillchain closer when combined with our JA's. A change like this is exactly what the job needed, imo.
    (0)
    Last edited by Nebo; 12-19-2014 at 12:16 PM.

  11. #30
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
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    Jan 2012
    Posts
    628
    Character
    Selindrile
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    All fair, and my complaint is more of a wishful whine, and admittedly so, I just am envious seeing Thfs with weaker gear than I outparse me, that's all, but it's not like I'm crying foul, not really, Thfs with better gear have been outparsed by people with worse gear for a long time previously, fair is fair, I just wish we would've rode the wave up as high as Thf did, s'all.

    I'm not calling for a nerf, or even a CDC buff really, that's just casual envy talking.

    My actual complaints and desires focus more around Blu's utility, reducing set point costs so we can bring utility to a group along with our DD setup, enhancing buff durations so we don't have to reapply so insanely often what would otherwise be good buffs, etc.
    (0)

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