Mal, I was referring to a pld who can go into full turtle themselves. You can hold the mob pretty decently as a pld if you get to hate cap and then take only token damage which the pld only instantly heals itself for. I've seen that tactic used pretty effectively, if the pld is already at cap before anyone else does anything then the hate doesn't get to bounce much with the pld getting the bit of hate from self-curing the little damage they do get and their on damage inflicted-unfortunately that's pretty much exclusively Aegis/Ochain territory. Because the mob will stay on the 1st person to reach cap if they never fall off the cap. But it is very difficult to do and your pld generally has to be the best geared guy in the party to pull it off. and no, TA is not the only one I was referring to, also Decoy Shot and even Cover and of course Conspirator (because the whole party needs to get in range for max effect), accomplice requires the target to be in range as well which it is sometimes hard to use it on the healer when they are back-line. Now, Decoy Shot won't be a factor if letting the pld get to cap 1st, or you can allow your rng to go when the pld does and hit cap in like 4 seconds that way. But yes as to the whm I was referring to what happens when the hate is everywhere so the whm is either having to fire a lot of Cure 5+ on individuals or curaga 4 and the like, congrats, your whm is now your tank, anyone bring a spatula to get him off the floor when they get killed again trying to get up so you still have a healer but without time to put up RR?

I've just seen too many parties go down on too much content because everyone wants to rush in and show off the 16k WS on their Sam as an example instead of letting a tank hold things in place. I mean all those monks you are bringing in in today's environment are supposed to be your "tank", well not when the sam is popping 16k and the whm is spamming back to back cure 6 on him or Curaga 4 if the mob decides to answer with a 1.5k AoE TP move. Now, I'm also not saying this needs to only be pld, if SE is serious they need to revamp nin so blink tanking is an option again and do something drastic to rune defensive ability (I still like the idea of Riposte, the fencing answer to Counter). But I think it's going to need to be more fundamental than that, as not taking damage is only part of the issue, taking hate back and then holding it is just as important as the damage mitigation. But tactically exactly what the players would have to do is really hard to speculate on when we have no idea what-if anything-SE might do to address things.