The importance of job points

[PlumbGame]

I'm actually confused on the philosphy that if people knew they were going to be important they would of been grinding CPs over what exactly? Sitting in town afk? I am astonished on the idea that people would frown so negatively upon the idea of bring jobs to a new level. Shall we just sit at 99 and have all new designs revolved around progression of your character via lvls thrown at us? I would also like to be able to talk to an NPC that gives me free RMEs every day.

[Tidis]

What people are saying is that when Job Points were announced, they were stated to be bring small improvements to jobs and wouldn't be required, as a result many people, myself included have rarely actively farmed CP, my most job pointed job is THF with 22 job points. The gripe we have now, and something many of us predicted, is that SE are going back on what they initially said job points would be and giving them increasing importance for each job, hell look at BLU, they were pretty useful from the get-go.

This one is directed at PlumbGame, you have a very bad example, it's not a case of farm job points or afk in town, it's a case of farm job points or farm dynamis or farm salvage or do delve or do high tier battlefields etc. There is so much content available right now that gives better reward for time spent than farming job points.

[Alhanelem]

What people are saying is that when Job Points were announced, they were stated to be bring small improvements to jobs and wouldn't be required, as a result many people, myself included have rarely actively farmed CP

"required" or not, why wouldn't you want them? and even new spells and abilities aren't "required" if you can already beat the content without them. A new tier of black magic isnt really needed to be added in the first place since all black magic was rebalanced to make lower tiers more DPS efficient. Abilities, it will depend on what they offer mechanically. Regardless it's silly for you to avoid working on an obviously-intended-as-character-advancement system just because you thought it might not be "required." Shouldn't you be wanting them anyway, required or not?

I'm really sick of people fussing over this, its like if they never specifically said that, nobody would be complaining. I have only about as many job points on my main as you and you don't see me complaining about it.

[Byrth]

A new tier of black magic isnt really needed to be added in the first place since all black magic was rebalanced to make lower tiers more DPS efficient.

Kind of off topic, but this isn't true. If you have a good fast cast set and can withstand the MP cost of nuking, higher tier spells are much better. People that spam Tier 1s either don't know what they're doing or don't have any kind of fast cast set (or, most likely, both).

[Roja323]

Erm Just no

T1 nuke does 1.6k (ish), instant cast (0.1 with FC), near instant recast, 4 mp cost (stone)-- 400dmg/mp
T4 nuke does 3.5k (ish), 6 sec cast (1.2s with FC), 30s recast (cant spam it), 112 mp cost (stone) 31dmg/mp

Explain to me how chain casting a t1 nuke to infinity at over 10x the dmg/mp efficiency is worse than doing a few t4 every 15 seconds? Yes you can get more total dmg out in a minute, but you will also be out of mp all the time, while spaming t1 you will never run out of mp, and can always use the nuke the target is weak to.

[Olor]

well Roja

a) Most important content is zerg content so the necessity of constantly having MP is lower - you don't need to maintain MP for hours - just for the duration of the content
b) Most important content includes buffers - no one is bringing nukers anywhere without a BRD or some other kind of refresher - it's easy to have more than 10 MP a tick without gear included

[Zarchery]

It's actually incredibly easy to cap job points on any given job and get all the gifts. I did it on all 7 of my level 99 jobs in a few minutes. All I had to do was lie. Since there is literally no way at all for anybody to see the small stat increases that job points and gifts give you, this is just as good as actually getting the job points from the perspective of other players. This relentless squawking of "job points are too hard to get and now it's not fair because I'm required to get them" is all hogwash.

[Alhanelem]

a) Most important content is zerg content so the necessity of constantly having MP is lower - you don't need to maintain MP for hours - just for the duration of the content

T1 nuke does 1.6k (ish), instant cast (0.1 with FC), near instant recast, 4 mp cost (stone)-- 400dmg/mp
T4 nuke does 3.5k (ish), 6 sec cast (1.2s with FC), 30s recast (cant spam it), 112 mp cost (stone) 31dmg/mp

If this is even remotely close to believeable, the low tier nuke is doing more damgae per second than the high tier nuke; making the higher tier nuke more for when you suddenly need to do a lot of damage (e.g. due to a sudden damage vulnerability, weakness proc, etc).

They specifically made lower tier nukes scale better with magic damage +, this is what causes them to be more efficient. Prior to ilvl and magic damge+ gear, high tier was always the way to go. But things have changed, as far as I can see.

It is worth noting that yes, you only need to be just efficient enough to last through the content; but the lower tier spell isn't merely more efficient, it is more effective over time.

[Alhanelem]

It's actually incredibly easy to cap job points on any given job and get all the gifts. I did it on all 7 of my level 99 jobs in a few minutes. All I had to do was lie. Since there is literally no way at all for anybody to see the small stat increases that job points and gifts give you, this is just as good as actually getting the job points from the perspective of other players. This relentless squawking of "job points are too hard to get and now it's not fair because I'm required to get them" is all hogwash.

The reason people are bringing this up again is becuase they plan to offer new spells/abilities with gifts. I'm still not bothered though. It's a post lvl cap progression system, just like merit points were at 75, therefore it was almost a certainty they would do something like this.

I really dont see the reason for the fuss about speed though. You can get a job point today faster than you could get a merit point when they were brand new.

[Byrth]

Erm Just no

T1 nuke does 1.6k (ish), instant cast (0.1 with FC), near instant recast, 4 mp cost (stone)-- 400dmg/mp
T4 nuke does 3.5k (ish), 6 sec cast (1.2s with FC), 30s recast (cant spam it), 112 mp cost (stone) 31dmg/mp

Explain to me how chain casting a t1 nuke to infinity at over 10x the dmg/mp efficiency is worse than doing a few t4 every 15 seconds? Yes you can get more total dmg out in a minute, but you will also be out of mp all the time, while spaming t1 you will never run out of mp, and can always use the nuke the target is weak to.

The issue here is that you haven't accounted for the forced delay that accompanies any magic action (3 seconds) and seem to care about MP cost and recast. In reality, using mostly your numbers and ignoring MP cost and damage/MP (both irrelevant stats if you can support the MP expenditure, which is what I stipulated):

T1 nuke does 1.6k (ish), 0.5*.2 = 0.1
T4 nuke does 3.5k (ish), 6*.2 = 1.2s

So you've set up:
T1: 1600/3.1 = 516 DPS
T4: 3500/4.2 = 833 DPS

Therefore we seem to agree that T4 spells have higher DPS than Tier 1 spells, which is all that I stated.


If for some reason you want to exclusively spam one tier of spell, Tier 4s start out at 30 second recast. 25% gear Haste, which you probably have accidentally in your iLevel nuking gear, and Haste spell bring it down to 18 seconds, which means that you need to cycle between ~4 of them to never leave the tier.

If you want to talk about MP costs, Spaekona's Coat +1 or Seidr Cotehardie give 2% elemental damage back as MP. 1600*.02 = 32, so Stone is free in your case. 3500*.02 = 70, so Stone IV costs 42 MP per cast and will be free on many conserve MP procs ~20% of your casts). Therefore, 5 casts will take 168 MP and will take 21 seconds (7 ticks). 168/21 = 8 MP/tick. I don't know if your refresh set is good enough to hit that solo, but it's possible and you have to admit it's not unreasonable.

If you want to argue that we're talking exclusively about single-element fights, you're still best off casting high tier nukes and then going down to lower tiers only when your recast isn't up or MP doesn't permit.

The only time Tier 1s are the best is if you want to just sit there and brainlessly cast the same single spell over and over. (and even then they might lose to Tier 2s.)