Current state of high tier battlefields and job discrimination...

[pim-ptarutaru]

If you do it on (N) pretty much any job can go into these with no prob. (D) Most ppl gonna go with the easy set up like you said. But if you want to get a group of diffrent kinds of jobs then by all means set one up. I've done alot of the (D) fights on my dnc but most of the time I have to set it up myself or go with my friends because they trust my dnc. Now i have rng that does get me into alot of things but mainly use it for shout groups if i dont feel like buidling my own pts.

[Camiie]

Indeed. And it has sorely affected the gameplay too - making jobs so shallow and mechanical I can't enjoy either of those games.

Just because 2 different jobs can get you to the same place in the same amount of time doesn't mean they have to follow the same path to get there.

[Afania]

I think you have to use MNK as standard DD. Perhaps this is a Sylph thing, but in pretty much every endgame activity, there is a MNK, and not just 1 MNK but 2 or 3, because supposedly it's that much better than every other DD in the game, even SAM. If SE wants other DD classes to participate, then they need to make them as desirable as MNK.

If you use delve weapon MNK as a standard DD, it's really not that amazing. SAM is slightly more PUG friendly just because tsuru is an awesome weapon.

Also, SE can't control what job ppl want to /shout. SAM is already a much stronger DD than MNK, if PUG still don't /shout for SAM, then it's not SE's fault.

[Zarchery]

What Afania said. The current "flavor of the month" DD is shifting. I swear it was Monk this time last year. Then it switched to RNG when the Ark Angel battles came out. Now it's MNK again? Or SAM? Damn I can't keep up.

[Tinytimtaru]

Well I would love to see the days of magic users as DDs being brought back. Remember the orginal DM fight with 18 BLMs! Good days!

We need BLMs to be able to go into Incursion and nuke for +50k dmg fully unresisted on bosses!

I remember watching those intro videos when this game started of those Tarus dropping asteroids onto the invading Orcs, thinking, that's what I'm talking about! That's why I wanted to play this game.

Crappy little pew pew Rangers or some Monk puching stuffs, should absolutely never come close to the damage an Asteroid being dropped on you would do... sorry, just saying.

[Camiie]

I have to disagree...^^; Even in FFXIV, where switching jobs is even easier than FFXI, a lot of people to develop and strong sense of job identity. And some people embrace the whole multiclass do-anything mindset, but in my experience those types are rare than those that have a favorite or two and mostly stick to those favorites. In XI, my LS has plenty of people that play what they want to play even if it means they never get to do endgame... (though I think most endgamers don't really care anyway)

My point was that many in the community as well as the devs seem perfectly fine with many jobs being outright useless for all endgame content or being useful for only one event. They also seem to enjoy the idea that a job can be great for a while and then cast off into obscurity for the next few years. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that any of this is good game balance. I guess I'm just not as accepting of insanity as others seem to be.

[Dale]

Just because 2 different jobs can get you to the same place in the same amount of time doesn't mean they have to follow the same path to get there.

That post you quoted wasn't about jobs being able/unable to take different paths to get to the same place though.

It was in reference to balancing - and how in recent MMORPGs job mechanics are being watered down to very simplistic roles and strategies to appease players who get upset if their job can't perform exactly the same as other jobs.

[Camiie]

That post you quoted wasn't about jobs being able/unable to take different paths to get to the same place though.

It was in reference to balancing - and how in recent MMORPGs job mechanics are being watered down to very simplistic roles and strategies to appease players who get upset if their job can't perform exactly the same as other jobs.

My response was in regards to that. Balance doesn't have to equal homogenization. That's what seemed to be implied.

[Dale]

My response was in regards to that. Balance doesn't have to equal homogenization. That's what seemed to be implied.

The post you mentioned was meant to imply developers are choosing to simplify gameplay as a way to achieve the exact kind of balance many players want. Though homogenization does seem to be the ultimate goal of this new generation of MMORPG gamers. Which is probably why you are seeing less variety in available classes on newer games.

They have already pretty much killed off the support class as an example. Healing classes seem to be next on their hit list. Then it will probably be defensive classes. Soon there will probably be nothing but DD jobs that all do the same damage per second according to spread sheets and damage meters so everybody can zoom through content at the same pace and not be out-parsed by anyone else.