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  1. #1
    Player Byrth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,172
    Character
    Byrth
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99

    Where is the Dual Wield adjustment?

    SE announced they would be eliminating the penalty to TP/hit that is caused by excess Dual Wield in the September update earlier this year. When it didn't arrive in September, I assumed that it would be in the October update and didn't say anything. Now it's October and there's no Dual Wield adjustment, so where is it?


    For those of you wondering what I'm talking about, delay reduction is limited to -80%. If you have capped magic haste (448/1024) and capped gear haste (256/1024), you have 68.75% Haste and need 36% Dual wield to hit the 80% delay reduction cap.
    (1-(448+256)/1024)*(1-X) = .2; X = 0.36
    If you have 50% Dual Wield instead, you still only get an 80% delay reduction. The problem is that Dual Wield reduces your TP/hit, so you want to use as little of it as possible. For most jobs, 36% isn't such a problem. Traits only go up to 35% Dual Wield (Ninja, level 85), so jobs can just stop using Dual Wield equipment in situations where they are pushing up against the delay cap without it.


    That is, until you use Haste Samba. With Haste Samba, the math becomes:
    (1-(448+256+101)/1024)*(1-X) = .2; X = 0.065
    So if you're using Haste Samba (5/5 merits), you only need 6.5% Dual Wield to hit the delay cap. So you suffer a pretty substantial TP/sec penalty for having Dual wield that you don't need, which is (ironically) worse the more Dual Wield traits you have. To be clear, you are not getting less TP/hit than you ever do without DW gear, but if you had much less Dual wield you would be getting more TP/hit and swinging at the same speed.

    Taking Dancer as an example, adding Haste Samba on top of capped magic/gear Haste allows us to drop 6% Dual Wield in gear without leaving the delay cap, but offers no further benefit. So Haste Samba, which must be maintained, costs us 350 TP, and so forth, lets DNC use Windbuffet Belt +1 instead of Shetal Stone. That is the entire benefit.


    If they had made the changes they proposed, Haste Samba would have increased TP/hit for Dual Wield jobs. It still wouldn't have really reduced delay very much and it would still be smart to swap Windbuffet +1 for Shetal Stone, but I would also have gotten a lot more TP/hit (21%, +11 TP/hit for me) for having it up.



    tl;dr:
    It looked like they were going to give Haste Samba a useful buff as the only source of JA Haste that affects Dual Wielders. Two updates after their implementation date, it's not here. Where is it?
    (13)
    Last edited by Byrth; 10-07-2014 at 09:05 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Rep Camate's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,712
    Originally we had looked into making adjustments so that when reaching the lowest limit of attack delay from dual wield and haste effects, the excess dual wield effect would not affect TP gain, but we realized that there were technical difficulties for achieving this.

    Additionally, if we were able to change the way dual wield works, there wouldn’t be much of an effect for players who swap out their equipment while under the effect of haste.
    (0)
    Last edited by Camate; 10-09-2014 at 01:54 AM. Reason: Edited as the original didn't address the main issue
    Devin "Camate" Casadey - Community Team

  3. #3
    Player Byrth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,172
    Character
    Byrth
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    You didn't give Daken to Dancer despite the fact that it is the only job almost always affected by excess Dual Wield. So Daken isn't a replacement for the other proposed changes, and feedback on Daken is irrelevant.
    (22)

  4. #4
    Player Malthar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    674
    Character
    Malthar
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Camate, this is bad news. How come Grekumah didn't deliver it this time? :-P
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player Olor's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,134
    I like Byrth's entire post was pretty much about DNC and the response was Daken. Come on Camate, you can do better than that.
    (4)
    http://photobucket.com/gallery/http://s19.photobucket.com/user/soulchld4/media/Olorinus-Signature.jpg.html

  6. #6
    Player Catmato's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    610
    Speaking of dual-wield, how about giving every job the ability to equip two weapons, but with a delay penalty for jobs without the trait?
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    639
    Character
    Selindrile
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Yes please, give every job "Dual Wield 0" if they don't have further, which doesn't give any delay benefit.
    (1)

  8. #8
    Player Jeanna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    64
    Character
    Jeanna
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    I like how this is replied to within 12 hours, but the numerous posts of dozens of people with 401s have been completely ignored.
    /end derail
    Also TIL dnc = nin. Who knew?
    (0)
    ★☆Taru Mule Extraordinnaire!☆★
    http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Odin/Calipso

  9. #9
    Player Camiie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    1,495
    Character
    Camiie
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    I tried equipping a shuriken on my DNC so I could take advantage of Daken, but it won't equip for some reason. I tried with a Chakram but I just couldn't get Daken to proc. Camate said I should try it, but it's not working. What's going on here, guys?! Do I need to file a bug report?!
    (3)

  10. #10
    Player Daniel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    93
    Character
    Danial
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 99
    Dual Wield is first and foremost a ninja trait, when they were considering changing DW it was for ninja... not for dnc. In addition, as a ninja I have to forgo duel wield gear all the time so saying dnc is the only job affected makes no sense. I got a super cool solution for you though, if dual wield is so important to your job they should just take away haste samba and problem solved.
    (1)

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