General complaint thread

[Zekander]

Since my other thread got derailed into essentially this, feel free to post any grievances you may have about Red Mage here.

Personally I would like to see RDM get an A- sword skill if for no other reason then for the style of the job. RDM is supposed to be a mage that wields a sword, but this is rarely the case. With only a B rank in sword there is no way to argue its use for anything other then soloing and even then nuking is often more effective.

SE please do not leave us out of the skill updates, this change would in no way make the job more powerful, simply more versatile.

[Draylo]

sry that would make them too overpowered

[Protey]

Blu is a hybrid with a focus on DPS, Rdm is a hybrid with a focus on support, you actually see shouts for Rdms, not Blus. Blu is not OP.

That said, I have 0 qualms about increasing Rdms melee ability I absolutely think every job should have an A+ in it's core skills, and Sword is definitely one for Rdm. And I wish they'd buff Enspell II's, as well, they're rather silly as they are.

I just took objection to calling Blu OP, though we've admittedly gotten a lot of Dev love lately (which I am very grateful for), we're still behind the leading jobs that share our role in a party, though we are admittedly now above the average, and many jobs could use more buffs than we could now, but we're still no Sam or Mnk or Rng, or even really Thf (though obviously not for DD reasons) in the "DD role" in terms of desirability, but we're now ahead or tied with most of the remaining DDs.

The only reason Rdms are shouted for more than Blus, honestly, is because the support role in general is rarer than DD, they're still behind Brd and Whm, in terms of support desirability.

so how is BLU overpowered? let's take a look:

winds of promyvion (erasega) - other jobs have to either use stratagems or be a mythic whm
barrier tusk - allows them to go 15% past the PDT cap.... hmmm where have i heard that before, o PLD and RUN mythics
subduction - gives aoe potent gravity, recast of 5 seconds, and does quite a bit of damage... RDM gravity 2 is single target, recast of 75 seconds, and does no damage
occultation - gives shadows based on blu skill... up to what, 10 shadows? RDM - 2
cocoon - 50% defense boost. nearest anything comes to this is defender from WAR
also has among many other possibilities: stun with very low recast time, incredibly long lasting terror, aoe sleep, and can cast aoe haste2 type spell that lasts about 8? minutes once every 10 minutes

there is more to being OP than just raw damage. O, and don't even try and use the argument that they are limited to the spells they can set. With assimilation and blue magic point bonus from JPs they can set all of the OP spells they need and then some.

[mattkoko]

While is is true all of the spells you mentioned are great spells. and you say don't use set points as an excuse, but that is a big factor. You have to remember that every single job other then blu has native job traits. In order for blu to get job traits, they need a certain spell combination. Sometimes this means setting useless spells just to get a job trait.

Also, spells like winds of promy is a great spell, but we cannot select party members. The party needs to be with in the blu's vicinity. And the mp cost on winds of promy is a pretty decent amount (89mp) where sch and /sch can cast it for 18 mp or less with light arts and those jobs that have a native conserve mp trait (a trait where we need a special spell combination to even have access to and by spells we may not even have any use for other then that trait).

Occultation is a great spell but it costs a crap tone of mp (138mp to be exact). The only place this really got its chance to shine is in abyssea with a 10-15mp tic refresh.

Barrier tusk lasts 60 seconds. Although it is nice, and sounds great on paper, it is situational at best.

Cocoon is amazing. not going to sugar coat that at all.

Subduction is cheap to cast and it is a nice spell but it costs 6 set points. A lot of these so called overpowered spells are great spells. I'm not going to lie. But even with assimilation and additional set points through JP, you still need to make a lot of sacrifices in order to get the proper job traits for whatever event along with the spells you want.

Edit: I forgot to mention blu's version of stun. Although it is a great stun, it is not as reliable as the actual stun spell. The actual stun spell is a lot less likely to be resisted, unless that mob has a natural resistance to stun. In other words, if a party needs a reliable stunner, they most likely will not turn to blu.

Also, it is true that diffusion can let you cast AOE haste II. Can also cast AOE refresh. Duration of erratic flutter is 5 minutes however (just over 6 minutes if you fully merit diffusion). Not 8. Rdm can recast haste II on them self and other party members full time (assuming that rdm is reliable and reapplies). Main point is blu is not invited to parties because they can cast AoE haste II. If people want haste II, they will go to a job that can reapply it on other party members full time.

With this said, I am not saying blu is a bad job. I love blu and it is a lot of fun and it is a great job to play. But it is no where close to being overpowered as you say. I don't know what your gripe is with the job, but just you saying that set points is not a factor when it absolutely is, as well as saying that erratic flutter lasts for 8 minutes when it lasts for 5 minutes tells me how little you know about the job. So before you talk about how OP blu is, level it to 99. Because for every great thing blu can do, a lot of sacrifice has to be made to get the desired traits along with the dmg output. You mentioned a lot of great defensive spells, but blu does not get invited to events because they can get 10 blink shadows, 15% past PDT cap, and AOE haste II every 10 minutes. They get invited to parties for dmg output (and occasionally absolute terror. Hell before blu got their physical spells boosted, AT was one of the only reasons they were invited to some of the delves). Which means we have to sacrifice most, if not all of our defensive spells to keep up with the other DDs. And we still wont keep up with the likes of mnk and sam.

RDM on the other hand is asked to parties more for their support role. RDMs don't get parties because they deal awesome dmg with their almighty sword skills. And even at A+ sword skill, you still wont get parties for your almighty sword skills. You want to know why? Because, rdm is mainly looked toward for support. So lets say the rdm runs in to poke the mob with a sword. Not only is that rdm just feeding tp, but putting them self in danger to get killed. It's hard to give support to your party members if your dead.

So you can go ahead and compare rdm to blu all you want, but they are used in parties for entirely different reasons. If you want to compare rdm to other jobs as far as balance goes, Compare them to the likes of brd, cor, and geo, because that is the category they fall into. As I said in the other thread, I am not against rdm getting a boost in their enspells or even A+ sword skills. If it makes them happy, I am all for it. But it is quite obvious you don't know much about blu, and if you did play blu, you would not be saying it is OP.

[Malthar]

sry that would make them too overpowered

Yep, we would have nothing but 18 man red mage parties.

[Malthar]

You left out hardened shell; 100 percent defense boost.

[Zekander]

I never compared RDM to BLU, and I know full well that increasing our sword skill won't make any difference in getting parties, which is pretty much why I asked for it. The style of the Red Mage is a mage that wields a sword, this has always been the case. However, in FFXI, RDM sword use is continually being marginalized in all content, an increase in sword skill would show that at least SE is being faithful to the style of the job, rather then simply pretending it doesn't exist.

I don't want RDM to be an exceptional melee DD, what I want is to have meleeing be an acceptable option in some party based content. Things like it being acceptable for a RDM to melee down adds in delve/incursion/etc. Then when the party gets to a boss the RDM can fall back to the backlines and provide some assistance in a support role. A better sword skill would help to change player opinion about what is acceptable for a RDM to do.

[Draylo]

RDM can solo PW its too strong and needs nerfing I think ^^

[Zekander]

And it is exactly s*** like that which ensures we will never get anything we ask for. Completely disregarding the fact that RDM is not the only job capable of these feats, and ignoring the fact that very few people would even want to do so when it is much easier and faster just to get a couple of other people to help you, and the fact that PW is still level 75 content, as well as the fact that increasing RDMs sword skill would in no way influence it's ability to do these things.

[Demonjustin]

Dray is just trollin, that's all.