General complaint thread

[Dale]

I'm not bad, everyone else is just a lot better than me.

Yes other jobs are better than you at melee damage. But they also can't heal/enhance/nuke/enfeeble as effectively either. You have to pay a price for your broad range of abilities, else the class would be too powerful.

[Dale]

Yes, currently the trend is: if you aren't SAM, you suck. ; ;

Unfortunately it's just a sad fact of MMORPGs that elitist players like this exist. I find the best thing to do is just ignore them and don't bother with the trends they try to stir up. Because any player who starts trying to appease the opinions of people like that are going to have a very miserable game experience.

[Protey]

Unfortunately it's just a sad fact of MMORPGs that elitist players like this exist. I find the best thing to do is just ignore them and don't bother with the trends they try to stir up. Because any player who starts trying to appease the opinions of people like that are going to have a very miserable game experience.

I agree. If you can complete the content with a slightly less powerful DD, who cares? You still completed the content.

[Dale]

I agree. If you can complete the content with a slightly less powerful DD, who cares? You still completed the content.

That's how I feel about it too. Long as you win in the end, that's what really matters.

[Shirai]

Just for the record Shirai, but I don't need your permission to do anything on my Red Mage.

Bottom line is if you don't like how someone plays then don't play with them. Simple as that. But players should never make the mistake of thinking they somehow have a right to dictate how other people should be playing just because they don't agree with it.

I don't care how you play, as long as you perform your core duties.
Which is make the group you go with perform better.

If you neglect those because you find it more important to play with your fleuret, you are detrimental to the team.

The 0.1% extra damage you bring is not going to compensate for the lack of output by real dds that aren't buffed.

So in short, having fun is fine but remember where your job's priorities lie.

[Dale]

I don't care how you play, as long as you perform your core duties.
Which is make the group you go with perform better.

If you neglect those because you find it more important to play with your fleuret, you are detrimental to the team.

The 0.1% extra damage you bring is not going to compensate for the lack of output by real dds that aren't buffed.

So in short, having fun is fine but remember where your job's priorities lie.

But you don't decide another player's priorities for them Shirai. They do. And as I said, if you don't like how a certain person plays their class, then don't play with them. It's that simple.

And adopting this dismissive and exaggerated attitude toward Red Mage melee by saying they only bring 0.1% extra damage does no one any good. It also helps contribute to the toxic atmosphere that some on this forum - such as that Zek guy - are dealing with. Because no matter what you may think, Red Mage are capable melee and can fill a DD role. I know this because I've seen it with my own two eyes. So trust me, they can do a lot more than play with their fleuret. They can actually kill things with it too.

Truth is Red Mage has a very broad range of abilities and are capable of playing effectively in many different ways. They are not limited to just being a haste/refresh bot for you and your party members. And no one is forcing you to play with Red Mages who melee anyway. So I would ask you to stop mocking them. It's both unnecessary and unwarranted.

[Shirai]

The thing is, if you actually play the mage part of your job; Then you are casting spells at least half the time, which means that you are not swinging your sword, which in return is a considerable loss in DPS.
Then there's the part where a proper mage casts spells in optimized gear to make sure that the spell does not get resisted on your enemy and in case of buffs, that you have an casting rate which is as fast as possible and at the same time has an as fast recast as possible because in the case of buffs in a proper setup you should be casting the spell on the next person.
Proper casting gear is not melee gear, which means that for the split second you are swapping back to a melee set you'll likely miss half the strikes.
Unless you are one of those that believes that swapping gear is cheating of course.

I'll simplify above a little for you.

Red mage -> Spellcaster

Let's look up a little description of the job Red mage:

Their real strengths lie in their mastery of enhancing and enfeebling skills when within a party, and leveraging their many "trades" against their enemies when outside of one.

Their real strengths lie in their mastery of enhancing and enfeebling skills when within a party

enhancing and enfeebling skills when within a party

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Red_Mage

Time to use your sword?

when outside of one.

[Dale]

The thing is, if you actually play the mage part of your job; Then you are casting spells at least half the time, which means that you are not swinging your sword, which in return is a considerable loss in DPS.
Then there's the part where a proper mage casts spells in optimized gear to make sure that the spell does not get resisted on your enemy and in case of buffs, that you have an casting rate which is as fast as possible and at the same time has an as fast recast as possible because in the case of buffs in a proper setup you should be casting the spell on the next person.
Proper casting gear is not melee gear, which means that for the split second you are swapping back to a melee set you'll likely miss half the strikes.
Unless you are one of those that believes that swapping gear is cheating of course.

I'll simplify above a little for you.

Red mage -> Spellcaster

Let's look up a little description of the job Red mage:





http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Red_Mage

Time to use your sword?

I'm not going to debate with you on the correct way to play a Red Mage. It's an endless and futile discussion with many different factors involved. Not to mention it's all just basically an opinion in the end anyway. Because there is no one right way to play Red Mage. It's a complex class with many different possibilities.

Also I should point out Red Mages have an assortment of melee-based spells for a reason. So arguing it's against their design doesn't make any sense to me. And it's very possible in many many situations to melee while still easily cast spells to support your party members. So I just disagree with your entire premise. Your real problem sounds more like an issue with this game's cumbersome gear-swapping mechanic which I can sympathize with. But that's neither here nor there.

But again - though tempting as it may be - I'm not going to get lured into a discussion on when it's acceptable to melee or when it isn't. That's an individual decision for each Red mage to make on his/her own.

What I am comfortable saying is that the Red Mage is perfectly capable of melee on this game and can be effective at it. And that's all I've said. Now when to employ that ability is ultimately up to the Red Mage. Sometimes I consider it ideal. Sometimes I don't. But it's not up to you or me for that matter when other Red Mages do it. It's their decision.

So to sum it up: I believe you to have a very limited view of the Red Mage and it's one I don't share. You are welcome to your opinion. Just don't mock or make fun of those of us who don't share it is all. Because you have your way of playing. And others have their way of playing. Neither is right or wrong if they both succeed at what they are trying to accomplish. And I can tell you without a doubt that there are plenty of successful Red Mages out there who melee in groups.

[Zekander]

That description is from a player generated site and thus reflects only the public opinion of the job.

Here's what SE has to say about RDM:

"These fighter-mages can utilize both black and white magic, as well as the arts of the sword."

also

"Capable of using both white and black magic, and adept at swordsmanship.
However, mastering powerful spells takes far longer than white or black mages."

and just in case you need it:

Adept

adjective
1. very skilled; proficient; expert:
"an adept juggler."

noun, adept
2. a skilled or proficient person; expert.

[Dale]

That description is from a player generated site and thus reflects only the public opinion of the job.

Here's what SE has to say about RDM:

"These fighter-mages can utilize both black and white magic, as well as the arts of the sword."

also

"Capable of using both white and black magic, and adept at swordsmanship.
However, mastering powerful spells takes far longer than white or black mages."

and just in case you need it:

Adept

adjective
1. very skilled; proficient; expert:
"an adept juggler."

noun, adept
2. a skilled or proficient person; expert.

There is nothing in that Wiki description she linked that says Red mage should only use their sword when outside of a party anyway. So the site she is quoting as evidence doesn't really say that. She just partially quotes when outside of one and sticks it in some box that says when to use a sword to give the impression that it says that. But it doesn't.

So I wouldn't say the site reflects her views. And that Wiki description didn't really say anything I disagree with because the strength of a Red Mage is in their mastery over enhancing and enfeebling magic. What she neglects to mention though is that much of the Red Mage's enhancing magic is used to strengthen melee. And it's precisely their mastery of enhancing magic in the first place that makes them effective with a sword.

So for her to suggest that a description stating the real strength of a Red Mage is their mastery over enhancing magic while in a group somehow means they aren't suppose to melee is a contradiction in and of itself. That's like saying the real strength of a Black Mage is in black magic but they aren't suppose to nuke while in a party.