General complaint thread

[Protey]

...as well as saying that erratic flutter lasts for 8 minutes when it lasts for 5 minutes tells me how little you know about the job...

First off, AoE erratic flutter can last a lot longer than 5 minutes. Probably because of that thing called merits.... but you wouldn't know about that Mr. IthinkIknoweverythingaboutBLUbutdon't.

So you can go ahead and compare rdm to blu all you want, but they are used in parties for entirely different reasons. If you want to compare rdm to other jobs as far as balance goes, Compare them to the likes of brd, cor, and geo, because that is the category they fall into. As I said in the other thread, I am not against rdm getting a boost in their enspells or even A+ sword skills. If it makes them happy, I am all for it. But it is quite obvious you don't know much about blu, and if you did play blu, you would not be saying it is OP

you are under the impression that this is all about being invited to parties.... it's not. Nowhere in my post did I mention invites to parties. Which was kind of obvious from the solo spells I mentioned. I can possibly see where you are confused as I did mention AoE haste2 as a possibility and I quoted Selindrile who mentioned RDMs shouted for more than BLUs, but that is a quote and not something I wrote.

RDM on the other hand is asked to parties more for their support role. RDMs don't get parties because they deal awesome dmg with their almighty sword skills. And even at A+ sword skill, you still wont get parties for your almighty sword skills. You want to know why? Because, rdm is mainly looked toward for support. So lets say the rdm runs in to poke the mob with a sword. Not only is that rdm just feeding tp, but putting them self in danger to get killed. It's hard to give support to your party members if your dead..

I'm going to throw your own words right back at you: go level RDM to 99 as it is quite obvious you don't know much about RDM. I have melee'd on RDM in delve. On Wopket I did 80% damage of the MNK.... I would hardly call that "just feeding TP". And as to your comment about a RDM putting themselves in danger and getting killed..... you do know that RDM is one of the most capable jobs at surviving? O wait, you don't, cuz you don't play RDM.

[Malthar]

RDM can solo PW its too strong and needs nerfing I think ^^

Ok Dray, that was kinda obvious trolling. lmao
Just because Protey can do it doesn't mean everyone can.

[Protey]

Dray is just trollin, that's all.

yea he is. i have troll'd him a bit about him going and soloing PW on BLU. This is him getting back at me.

[mattkoko]

First off, AoE erratic flutter can last a lot longer than 5 minutes. Probably because of that thing called merits.... but you wouldn't know about that Mr. IthinkIknoweverythingaboutBLUbutdon't.



you are under the impression that this is all about being invited to parties.... it's not. Nowhere in my post did I mention invites to parties. Which was kind of obvious from the solo spells I mentioned. I can possibly see where you are confused as I did mention AoE haste2 as a possibility and I quoted Selindrile who mentioned RDMs shouted for more than BLUs, but that is a quote and not something I wrote.



I'm going to throw your own words right back at you: go level RDM to 99 as it is quite obvious you don't know much about RDM. I have melee'd on RDM in delve. On Wopket I did 80% damage of the MNK.... I would hardly call that "just feeding TP". And as to your comment about a RDM putting themselves in danger and getting killed..... you do know that RDM is one of the most capable jobs at surviving? O wait, you don't, cuz you don't play RDM.

Actually, there is no way to make erratic flutter last 8 minutes. I do however admit I am wrong that it only lasts 5 minutes. I even changed it just for you. I forgot about the update where they now add 5% duration per merit which makes it last very slightly over 6 minutes (still no where near 8 minutes). So my bad, sorry. But since you used 8 minutes, lets say it did last 8 minutes just for the sake of argument. That is still 2 minutes of everyone going with out haste and to a pld in many of the big fights, haste full time or close to it is important. I never claimed I know it all. But, you basically put blu out there making it sound like the absolute best job in the game and glorified the hell out of it when most of your examples are very poor and not as great as they sound on paper. You say don't use the set points argument, however it is a very big factor. Like I said, blu is a great job. Not taking anything away from it in the slightest. But it is hardly as overpowered as you say. Which is my main point.

And here we go, now we are talking about survivability solo. As far as solo goes, I stand by that many of your examples are poor. Again, they sound good on paper. You just admitted straight up that rdm is very capable of surviving. They have immediate access to all spells. Blu does not. Although we have many defensive spells, they either cost a lot of mp, or they don't last long enough to be of any use. And please don't tell me I am confused this time and say you are not talking about survivability because all of your spell examples are survivability spells that you used for blu in your claim of how over powered we are. By the way, I was not confused at all before either. You used AoE as a part of your example, so I used it back. I call it as I see it. You also used winds of promy as an example in your list of "Overpowering spells." So you say this is not about parties, but some of your examples say otherwise. But since we are not talking about parties anymore, if your DD skills are boosted for solo, don't you think your DD skills will be boosted for parties as well. All of these job adjustments they have been doing have not been to increase the solo skills for said jobs.

As far as you doing 80% dmg of a mnk (Not going to say it didn't happen because I was not there. Though seeing your pattern of over exaggerating of pretty much everything in your previous post, I do question it), if this is in fact true, then you obviously don't need A+ sword skill and enhanced enspells since that would be overpowering.

I still stand by my point, which you failed to mention anything about in your previous post, that rdm is seen as a support job. So if you are looking for balance, you would still want to compare rdm to brd, cor, and geo. Leave blu out of it because DD wise, blu is far from OP. And survivability wise, I don't even need an argument for since you did such a good job telling me how awesome rdm is at surviving.

And Zekander, sorry I thought I used quotes before on Protey but I guess I did not. It was not aimed to you. I actually think you make a very valid point, however, they also left out cor, brd, and geo. All 3 of their main melee weapons are still B-/b+. And the thing that is in common with all of these jobs is that they are seen as support jobs. Therefore, I can see SE's reasoning for not increasing sword skills for rdm. Not saying I completely agree with it. I just understand it I guess lol. Now, as far as Dray goes, I highly doubt him trolling will effect any decisions made by the development team. However, the title of this post being "general complaints," I can see the dev team passing right over this post just because of the title. Rather then using complaint in the title, try using "general suggestions" or "suggestions for rdm" or something along those lines. Because you do have suggestions in your main post. But if the title doesn't bring them into the thread, then there is no point for those suggestions.

[Zekander]

I should have just named it Red VS Blue the way it's going.

I actually had no idea that COR's marksmanship skill was so bad and seeing as how they are pretty much built around guns this certainly makes no sense. BRD doesn't really need dagger skill as they have no reason solo anything and they need to run back and forth in battle too much to consider using it. Geo got stuck with a low club skill because it would have alienated the WHM community, I'm sure even giving them Hexa Strike was a pretty big offense to WHM melee enthusiasts, not to mention the fact that it would probably have unbalanced the job. Right now GEOs just stand in melee range giving massive buffs to anyone in range, if they were able to competently melee and even utilize those buffs for themselves they would really be overpowered as it would pretty much be like combining MNK and BRD except it doesn't need to waste any meleeing time casting spells.

I really don't think the thread title makes any difference, the last dev post in the RDM thread was in a completely mistaken rant titled "Gravity Nerf...", which they needn't have even bothered responding to as any player with half a brain would have told that guy to stfu and would have been right to do so. While there are a veritable slew of threads titled 'suggestion for rdm' that have gone completely ignored.

[mattkoko]

I should have just named it Red VS Blue the way it's going.

I actually had no idea that COR's marksmanship skill was so bad and seeing as how they are pretty much built around guns this certainly makes no sense. BRD doesn't really need dagger skill as they have no reason solo anything and they need to run back and forth in battle too much to consider using it. Geo got stuck with a low club skill because it would have alienated the WHM community, I'm sure even giving them Hexa Strike was a pretty big offense to WHM melee enthusiasts, not to mention the fact that it would probably have unbalanced the job. Right now GEOs just stand in melee range giving massive buffs to anyone in range, if they were able to competently melee and even utilize those buffs for themselves they would really be overpowered as it would pretty much be like combining MNK and BRD except it doesn't need to waste any meleeing time casting spells.

I really don't think the thread title makes any difference, the last dev post in the RDM thread was in a completely mistaken rant titled "Gravity Nerf...", which they needn't have even bothered responding to as any player with half a brain would have told that guy to stfu and would have been right to do so. While there are a veritable slew of threads titled 'suggestion for rdm' that have gone completely ignored.

Lol yea sorry about that. I just had to defend Blu. I don't want SE making an unnecessary nerf because someone claims them to be over powered when they are not. but I will refrain from adding to any more of the blu vs rdm discussion. I said my piece

I admit I just leveled cor to 99 and even I said the same thing about their main being guns and all. and it is true brd does not need dagger skills. I was just going by the pattern I noticed for all the support jobs. Now if they boosted cor marksmanship to A or A+ and they left out rdm sword, that would be a big wtf moment to me. Though, dnc I would think qualifies as a support job and they are getting A+ dagger skills. The only reason I can see for that though is that their steps depend on melee acc.

And yeah I do understand the frustration and you are probably right that SE probably wont reply to the thread. It is funny. In another thread, I mentioned that they either don't respond, they say "the dev team doesn't have plans" or they say, "we currently have plans and will be implemented in future updates." What is missing in this formula is they never say, "we currently have no plans for this but I will relay your ideas to the dev team and we will see where it goes from there." It seems as though they either ignore what the community says, or they just don't care what the community says. I hope this is not the case, but it is the impression that I and many others get judging by their responses. They don't do a great job in letting us know that our feedback means something. And I don't mean by them saying stuff like, "We appreciate your feedback," because they do say that every now and then. But their constant dismissing certain things by saying they don't have plans with out even giving a reason why, speaks volumes.

[mattkoko]

By the way, the fact that I mentioned dnc getting A+ skills may invite some thieves in here considering there is a whole other post on how thf is being overshadowed by dnc. So time to rename the title again lol.

[Protey]

Actually, there is no way to make erratic flutter last 8 minutes. I do however admit I am wrong that it only lasts 5 minutes. I even changed it just for you. I forgot about the update where they now add 5% duration per merit which makes it last very slightly over 6 minutes (still no where near 8 minutes). So my bad, sorry. But since you used 8 minutes, lets say it did last 8 minutes just for the sake of argument. That is still 2 minutes of everyone going with out haste and to a pld in many of the big fights, haste full time or close to it is important. I never claimed I know it all. But, you basically put blu out there making it sound like the absolute best job in the game and glorified the hell out of it when most of your examples are very poor and not as great as they sound on paper. You say don't use the set points argument, however it is a very big factor. Like I said, blu is a great job. Not taking anything away from it in the slightest. But it is hardly as overpowered as you say. Which is my main point.

And here we go, now we are talking about survivability solo. As far as solo goes, I stand by that many of your examples are poor. Again, they sound good on paper. You just admitted straight up that rdm is very capable of surviving. They have immediate access to all spells. Blu does not. Although we have many defensive spells, they either cost a lot of mp, or they don't last long enough to be of any use. And please don't tell me I am confused this time and say you are not talking about survivability because all of your spell examples are survivability spells that you used for blu in your claim of how over powered we are. By the way, I was not confused at all before either. You used AoE as a part of your example, so I used it back. I call it as I see it. You also used winds of promy as an example in your list of "Overpowering spells." So you say this is not about parties, but some of your examples say otherwise. But since we are not talking about parties anymore, if your DD skills are boosted for solo, don't you think your DD skills will be boosted for parties as well. All of these job adjustments they have been doing have not been to increase the solo skills for said jobs.

As far as you doing 80% dmg of a mnk (Not going to say it didn't happen because I was not there. Though seeing your pattern of over exaggerating of pretty much everything in your previous post, I do question it), if this is in fact true, then you obviously don't need A+ sword skill and enhanced enspells since that would be overpowering.

I still stand by my point, which you failed to mention anything about in your previous post, that rdm is seen as a support job. So if you are looking for balance, you would still want to compare rdm to brd, cor, and geo. Leave blu out of it because DD wise, blu is far from OP. And survivability wise, I don't even need an argument for since you did such a good job telling me how awesome rdm is at surviving.

And Zekander, sorry I thought I used quotes before on Protey but I guess I did not. It was not aimed to you. I actually think you make a very valid point, however, they also left out cor, brd, and geo. All 3 of their main melee weapons are still B-/b+. And the thing that is in common with all of these jobs is that they are seen as support jobs. Therefore, I can see SE's reasoning for not increasing sword skills for rdm. Not saying I completely agree with it. I just understand it I guess lol. Now, as far as Dray goes, I highly doubt him trolling will effect any decisions made by the development team. However, the title of this post being "general complaints," I can see the dev team passing right over this post just because of the title. Rather then using complaint in the title, try using "general suggestions" or "suggestions for rdm" or something along those lines. Because you do have suggestions in your main post. But if the title doesn't bring them into the thread, then there is no point for those suggestions.

ok here we go again... you are forgetting about relic feet: 5/5 merits = 25%, add feet, that's another 25%. so you're looking at 7.5 minutes. I put about 8 with a question mark because I knew it was somewhere around there. Sometimes I wonder if you play BLU as much as you say you do. Or maybe you just don't play it properly/gimped. You say I have a pattern of over exaggerating. where? that's right, I don't. I also question the things you say because you lumped a BLU in the PLD party. And you seem to think PLD needs haste. All events that a PLD is brought to is because there are RNGs. Decoy Shot says hi. Any other fights you don't bring PLDs because it is a waste. Sure, giving the PLD haste will benefit, but it's not as big of a deal as you make it out to be. Maybe you play with a group of people in a non-standard way where you put BLUs in with PLDs, more power to you. The rest of us don't.

The reason I say those things about BLU is I've seen 2 BLUs in delve keep an NM terrorized for almost the entire duration of its life. I've seen a BLU be able to heavy gravity a ton of mobs and kite them in pinch situations or just spam that spell and kill them all at once. I've seen BLU erasega and fully heal the party as if it was a WHM. I've seen BLU with like 3000 defense (though I think he might have had a minne or two), my PLD doesn't come even close to that. I've seen mythic BLU with unlimited MP. I've seen BLU outparsing MNKs. The list goes on.

You state RDM is seen as a support job. This is your own bias. RDM is a jack-of-all trades; whether it be DD, support, tank, healer... I've done them all.

As to your comment regarding how I fared against that MNK, keep in mind that I am not anywhere near the average RDM. I have put massive amounts of time and effort into it and have pretty much the best gear in all aspects. You also need to keep in mind that the SAMs were doing over double the damage of the MNK. Now SAMs are waaaaaay OP.

[Protey]

By the way, the fact that I mentioned dnc getting A+ skills may invite some thieves in here considering there is a whole other post on how thf is being overshadowed by dnc. So time to rename the title again lol.

and how about them PUPs getting A+ skill. That leaves MNK only with counter and kick attacks to outparse the puppet.... not seeing that happening.

[Demonjustin]

Red VS Blue

They're brother jobs. It's only natural to compare them in my opinion. I understand how it seems somewhat derailing but if this is a thread for general complains about RDM then BLU is bound to pop up as a tool for comparison.

PUPs

Impetus is the main thing pulling MNK ahead of a PUP currently so far as I know. PUP has their Automaton to close other gaps, and that's before you count in Stringing Pummel, assuming it's the best H2H WS.