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  1. #41
    Player Byrth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,172
    Character
    Byrth
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    They also gave Ninjas, who were already better DDs than DNC or THF against a lot of content, kick-Katanas. Why don't you declare the death of your job for that reason? By the way, they buffed WAR as well (a better DD than DNC, THF, or NIN). Why doesn't that get you in the gut?


    How goddamned dumb are people that they honestly think they're competing with the other melee jobs for DPS? There is no competition. If you want damage, you bring SAM. Reasons to bring other melee include:
    1) You can't find a Tsurumaru (or better) SAM, so you bring a job that buffs the SAM indirectly in some way (DRG, DNC)
    2) You can't find a Tsurumaru (or better) SAM, so you sacrifice the DPS and get a mythic heavy DD (WAR, DRK, DRG).
    3) Pity (Q.Q)
    4) TH (THF)


    ^ See? The only category DNC and THF compete in is the pity category.
    (2)

  2. #42
    Player Atomic_Skull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,247
    Character
    Bjorne
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 5
    You really can't understand if you aren't a mainjob THF. It's not about invites or utility it's about THF loosing it's place as the master of daggers to another job. It's like if SE suddenly gave WAR an A+ in Scythe, no matter how it affected DRKs they would be very angry.
    (0)

  3. 10-02-2014 05:44 PM

  4. #43
    Player
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    413
    Thief has TH and many emnity control JA, they can also boost their dmg up with sa/ta. They also have access to some better/easier to get gear that dnc main does not.

    Dancer is still mainly a utility and solo job to the vast majority of people that play it. If a dnc and a thief both apply to your group the chances are you're going to take the thief still.

    A+ and an increase in steps isn't making the job destroy thieves place in the world, also the changes to steps make the job more annoying to play since you now have the delay after using all these JA to deal with. The decrease is stop timers will make dyna proc's easier but will really hurt the dps of the job (you can choose not to use steps as much but still they could of done this in a better way).
    (0)

  5. #44
    Player Afania's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,445
    Character
    Afania
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Selindrile View Post
    Blu's had a comparable Def down for ages, it's only worth casting sometimes and it's hardly overpowered, and takes far less opportunity cost to use than steps, and Blu has better damage output than Dnc/War.

    Unless there are other def down spell I'm not aware of, frightful roar is only 10% and Bilgestorm being 25%.

    Dia 3 is 15% and both 2 and 3 can be enhanced to 20% with light shot. I can't find the info about max lv box step, but it's 13% at lv 5 so probably 23% at max lv?

    Cost wise, Bilgestorm has 5 min recast due to JA recast, and you'd sacrifice other useful spell like harden shell for it, making it not all that useful.

    Frightful roar isn't that potent compare with box/dia, it requires set point(which can be used for another DD trait, thus sacrificing DPS), requires cast time(sacrifice DPS), and it requires a good macc set to land on anything higher lv such as lv 130+ incursion.

    Dia doesn't require macc gears to land, steps are incredibly accurate from my personal experience. On the other hand unless you have absolutely max macc gear or even buff, roar doesn't always land in higher lv incursion. I haven't done spreadsheet yet so I don't know the exact dps gap between a DNC and BLU. But unless the gap between BLU and DNC is huuuuge(which I doubt), a pt with DNC should have higher pt output than a pt with BLU when all steps reaches max lv. There's a huge difference between the debuff potency between BLU and DNC IMO.




    Quote Originally Posted by Pixela View Post
    A+ and an increase in steps isn't making the job destroy thieves place in the world, also the changes to steps make the job more annoying to play since you now have the delay after using all these JA to deal with. The decrease is stop timers will make dyna proc's easier but will really hurt the dps of the job (you can choose not to use steps as much but still they could of done this in a better way).
    Except it's not, able to cap steps faster is DPS increase for the job itself, and every other DD job in the pt. It doesn't matter if it's annoying, it seems like a DPS gain for the job to me. If you find using JA annoying in FFXI, MNK or SAM is the job for you.
    (0)
    Last edited by Afania; 10-02-2014 at 08:44 PM.

  6. #45
    Player Finuve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    282
    Character
    Finuve
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Byrth View Post
    They also gave Ninjas, who were already better DDs than DNC or THF against a lot of content, kick-Katanas. Why don't you declare the death of your job for that reason? By the way, they buffed WAR as well (a better DD than DNC, THF, or NIN). Why doesn't that get you in the gut?


    How goddamned dumb are people that they honestly think they're competing with the other melee jobs for DPS? There is no competition. If you want damage, you bring SAM. Reasons to bring other melee include:
    1) You can't find a Tsurumaru (or better) SAM, so you bring a job that buffs the SAM indirectly in some way (DRG, DNC)
    2) You can't find a Tsurumaru (or better) SAM, so you sacrifice the DPS and get a mythic heavy DD (WAR, DRK, DRG).
    3) Pity (Q.Q)
    4) TH (THF)


    ^ See? The only category DNC and THF compete in is the pity category.
    im pretty sure everyone realizes (except SE) that SAM is %@&ing stupid

    DRK didnt get &*^& either, apparently SE was happy with their cast time reductions to absorb spells last patch which amounts to absolutely nothing
    (3)

  7. #46
    Player Ulth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Finuve View Post
    im pretty sure everyone realizes (except SE) that SAM is %@&ing stupid

    DRK didnt get &*^& either, apparently SE was happy with their cast time reductions to absorb spells last patch which amounts to absolutely nothing
    I was shocked when they gave HP up to pretty much everyone but DRK. If any job could have benefited from extra HP it would be DRK
    (2)

  8. #47
    Player Ziyyigo-Tipyigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    1,297
    Character
    Ziyyigotipyigo
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull View Post
    It's not about invites or utility it's about THF loosing it's place as the master of daggers to another job.
    My PLD has the uncontested highest club skill in the game but I still can't use Hexa Strike.

    And there's never really been a true master of daggers. You essentially start the game with the same weapon as a RDM, and share all weapon skills with that job all the way to level 90(!). The only weapon skill you don't share with both DNC and BRD(!) is your job-specific Mythic.

    You don't get a Raging Rush, a Hexa Strike, or a Swift Blade all to yourself. Instead, you share everything with support classes, which is what THF was supposed to be to begin with.
    (1)
    Last edited by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo; 10-03-2014 at 06:53 AM. Reason: missed a word
    Nothing in the above post is intended to disparage Square Enix or FINAL FANTASY XI, or to criticize Square Enix staff; such behavior would be a violation of the FINAL FANTASY XI User Agreement. Any such violations of the FINAL FANTASY XI User Agreement should be reported to Square Enix immediately, by using the "Report Post" icon in the bottom-left of forum posts.

    No Moogles were harmed in the making in this post. Stars save the Sibyl!

  9. #48
    Player Byrth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,172
    Character
    Byrth
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Technically THF and DNC share exclusive access to Dancing Edge and Shark Bite.
    (1)

  10. #49
    Player Ziyyigo-Tipyigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    1,297
    Character
    Ziyyigotipyigo
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 1
    Quote Originally Posted by Byrth View Post
    Technically THF and DNC share exclusive access to Dancing Edge and Shark Bite.
    You're right, my mistake. But I can still make the argument that those formerly unique skills are more about compatibility with SATA (they're the only strictly physical WS's on dagger before WSNM) rather than being significant in their own right.

    And THF is still sharing Relic and Empyrean weapon skills with BRD.

    OP's current 417 skill with dagger is no better than my 417 skill with club and staff. PLD "only" gets an A- in those weapons because it's not about the weapons themselves but who they're used against (skeletons). THF got an A- in dagger because it's not about the weapons themselves but where the THF is standing when using one.
    (0)
    Last edited by Ziyyigo-Tipyigo; 10-03-2014 at 08:12 AM.
    Nothing in the above post is intended to disparage Square Enix or FINAL FANTASY XI, or to criticize Square Enix staff; such behavior would be a violation of the FINAL FANTASY XI User Agreement. Any such violations of the FINAL FANTASY XI User Agreement should be reported to Square Enix immediately, by using the "Report Post" icon in the bottom-left of forum posts.

    No Moogles were harmed in the making in this post. Stars save the Sibyl!

  11. #50
    Player Bebekeke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    97
    Quote Originally Posted by Byrth View Post
    Technically THF and DNC share exclusive access to Dancing Edge and Shark Bite.
    IIRC, DNC had to fight tooth and nail to get DE and SB though. I'm sure it didn't originally have access to those WS?
    (0)

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