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  1. #31
    Player Hoshi's Avatar
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    Hoshiku
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    Asura
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    RNG Lv 99
    So much what Malithar said. I have a linkshell full of friends who run content. We make mythics together which makes assaults, ein, and nyzul a breeze. We spam delve together and I am currently sitting on 5 million plasm (after spending about 10 mil). I don't join shout groups and I rarely shout. The only thing I have to shout for in this game is H-P Bayld because it is rare and it is impossible to solo it or rely just on your friends to attain it.
    (1)

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malithar View Post
    And their "little commitment" comment was in regards to the requirements other than Alexandrite, which, as they said, requires little. How does botting/buying gil factor into ichor, tokens, and assaults? Maybe you should check your own reading comprehension?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoshi View Post
    I can assure you that most of the requirements were not in the least challenging and required little commitment.
    Where in that statement does it say other than alexandrite? you could possibly say she wasn't referring to alexandrite.... but then let's look at that. If you were making an art project; you needed 150,000 grains of sand, 100,000 grains of salt, 50 sheets of paper, and 30,000 diamonds. If you asked 99% of people they would tell you the majority of the requirements in making that art project is the 30,000 diamonds. Why? Because the other requirements aren't really that much of a requirement. Let's look at it another way by making everything equivalent: The 100k Ichor requires 53 iterations of T3 Einherjar, or 530 minutes of time = ~9h. Tokens, let's say you aren't doing so well and only averaging 3k a run, that would be 50 runs or 25h. Assaults on average take about 10 minutes, but I will fluff up the #s to your favor and average it to 15 minutes, that's 750 minutes = 12.5 hours. Now we come to the Alexandrite; ~210million gils worth. If you farm all of that yourself you are looking at (30,000 alexandrite / ~125 alex per run)(~35 minutes per run) = 8,400 minutes or 140 hours. You might say that you buy the alex... ok, how long does it take you to get gil? Let's say you are averaging 2 million gil an hour, that's still 105 hours. Still over double all of the other requirements combined.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malithar View Post
    I run with a group that accomplishes everything the game has to offer, so no, I don't think anyone with more than sparks gear bots. And I know people with multiple RMEs. But the only one I know that has 6 mythics used the Salvage glitch to fund three of them. Bode well != accusation of botting, was more a situation of the pot calling the kettle black.
    where did i say accusation? i didn't, yet again you and your poor reading comprehension. You are insinuating. Just like "pot calling the kettle black". It is poor form of argumentation and used to instill bias. and i will reiterate what i said before, sounds like you're jealous and so anyone who has something must clearly be cheating. Mythics have been out for over 7 years. You do the math, getting 5 is quite easy by this amount of time. I have done over 2,000 runs of salvage to give you an idea. If only counting exactly 2,000 runs, I would only need to average 75 alex per run to get 5 mythics worth.





    Quote Originally Posted by Malithar View Post
    We agree here, but you're failing to see that the grind for HPBs is not realistically possible for a single person, even multiple people, to complete in a reasonable time frame. Alexandrite is. Not only is it reasonable to solo it, it's readily available in bazaars all across the game if you'd rather buy it.
    again, i'll say you have poor reading comprehension:

    Quote Originally Posted by Protey View Post
    agreed, to a point. I still think weapons that are this powerful should be a grind to get. One should have to really dedicate themselves (like mythics) to obtaining them. I wish relics were more difficult to get, but unfortunately they are not. So while I think that HP-bayld obtainment rate should increase... only to a point where it would take 8 months of daily farming for about 45 minutes to get (that is comparable to mythics: 30,000 alex / ~125 alex per day = 240 days).
    Quote Originally Posted by Malithar View Post
    That grind though, that's the work behind Ergons. Fool yourself some more that 3-4 Assaults begin to compare to camping people's Bayld.

    I never said Ergons didn't require work. Never even insinuated it. In fact, just the opposite. My argument is that Ergons are not difficult. They are just a grind. They will not become difficult to make until the vast majority of people don't do delve anymore (like the vast majority of people don't do assaults anymore). Though I do suppose one could just pay people to do the assaults/delve. I still have an issue with Imperial Agent Rescue though. That assault I have the toughest time with even if I bring others. Maybe if I try capping it at level 70 that would work.
    (0)

  3. #33
    Player Hoshi's Avatar
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    RNG Lv 99
    Do you honestly think the alex is hard to acquire? When you were complaining that mythics are more difficult than ergon weapons to make, I thought that certainly you meant the nyzul runs or the assaults. You have 5 mythics. This is not 2011. Did you make no money in the last two years from ADL farms, delve clears, HTBF drops, or crafting? I already said in my post that I farmed a bit over 10,000 alex on my own and bought the rest. I ran salvage twice a day although I've almost got another two mules to 99 to make that 4x a day for the next mythic. What's more alex is plentiful. Half the bazaars you check contain it. I certainly wouldn't compare it to diamonds at this point, more like gravel.
    (1)

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoshi View Post
    Do you honestly think the alex is hard to acquire? When you were complaining that mythics are more difficult than ergon weapons to make, I thought that certainly you meant the nyzul runs or the assaults. You have 5 mythics. This is not 2011. Did you make no money in the last two years from ADL farms, delve clears, HTBF drops, or crafting? I already said in my post that I farmed a bit over 10,000 alex on my own and bought the rest. I ran salvage twice a day although I've almost got another two mules to 99 to make that 4x a day for the next mythic. What's more alex is plentiful. Half the bazaars you check contain it. I certainly wouldn't compare it to diamonds at this point, more like gravel.
    where did i say alex is hard to acquire? i didn't. i said that it is a grind. which it is. you either farm it yourself for about 240 runs, buy it with about $210mil, or a combination thereof. Grind =/= Difficult. It's just mind drudging work. Why diamonds? because the effort required to obtain them is vastly greater than that of Ichor, Tokens, and Pages. What does me making gil have to do with anything? What does you farming 10,000 and buying the rest have to do with anything? What does alex being plentiful have to do with anything? You still have to acquire it yourself, obtain gil to buy it, or a combination thereof. Same with HP-Bayld. I see about 1,000 H-P Bayld in bazaars on my server, don't know about yours. If it isn't available on your server, maybe it is time to switch, if even temporarily to buy from other servers.
    (0)

  5. #35
    Player Loir's Avatar
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    Loire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protey View Post
    where did i say alex is hard to acquire? i didn't. i said that it is a grind. which it is. you either farm it yourself for about 240 runs, buy it with about $210mil, or a combination thereof. Grind =/= Difficult. It's just mind drudging work. Why diamonds? because the effort required to obtain them is vastly greater than that of Ichor, Tokens, and Pages. What does me making gil have to do with anything? What does you farming 10,000 and buying the rest have to do with anything? What does alex being plentiful have to do with anything? You still have to acquire it yourself, obtain gil to buy it, or a combination thereof. Same with HP-Bayld. I see about 1,000 H-P Bayld in bazaars on my server, don't know about yours. If it isn't available on your server, maybe it is time to switch, if even temporarily to buy from other servers.
    Obvious troll is obvious. That or you are so spastic about flip-flopping back and forth on this. Nothing along the mythic path requires effort and nothing along the mythic path is difficult. Nothing along the ergon path is readily difficult or containing much effort at all either. The issue being the supply of H.P. Bayld in relation to the supply of alex since these were meant to be comparable progression in terms of upgrades for the two SoA jobs. Its great to hear on your backwater server that HP bayld is plentiful but sadly since Asura is one of the happening hot-spots to be for N.A. servers there are probably ~10 people making ergon weapons at this point on ours.
    (6)

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loir View Post
    Obvious troll is obvious. That or you are so spastic about flip-flopping back and forth on this. Nothing along the mythic path requires effort and nothing along the mythic path is difficult. Nothing along the ergon path is readily difficult or containing much effort at all either. The issue being the supply of H.P. Bayld in relation to the supply of alex since these were meant to be comparable progression in terms of upgrades for the two SoA jobs. Its great to hear on your backwater server that HP bayld is plentiful but sadly since Asura is one of the happening hot-spots to be for N.A. servers there are probably ~10 people making ergon weapons at this point on ours.
    your definition of "effort" is strange. or you are a troll. or you are a gil buyer/botter. take your pick. Last I checked, either farming massive amounts of alexandrite/HP Bayld or farming gil to buy said items requires "effort".
    (0)

  7. #37
    Player Loir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protey View Post
    your definition of "effort" is strange. or you are a troll. or you are a gil buyer/botter. take your pick. Last I checked, either farming massive amounts of alexandrite/HP Bayld or farming gil to buy said items requires "effort".
    Take your strawman argument elsewhere. The discussion is quantity of H.P. bayld available from current sources not coming anywhere close to a reasonable demand for the player base and not possible to self-farm the supply to finish an ergon by contrast to what is available with alexandrite and its farming methods.
    (6)

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loir View Post
    Take your strawman argument elsewhere. The discussion is quantity of H.P. bayld available from current sources not coming anywhere close to a reasonable demand for the player base and not possible to self-farm the supply to finish an ergon by contrast to what is available with alexandrite and its farming methods.
    you obviously don't know the definition of strawman. i will help you out. "The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition."

    you said neither mythic nor ergon weapons require effort. i did a logical analysis on what reasons you could possibly have for saying that. then i refuted that the weapons don't require effort (which was your proposition). i did not covertly replace it with a different proposition. stop making stuff up. you are incorrect that it is not possible to self-farm HP Bayld. If you mean within a certain amount of time, that I would agree too, but you failed to state that. As to your declaring what the argument is about... who declared you in charge of deciding that? If you paid attention, you would see it was also about difficulty vs effort. If you were referring to the OP, then yes that is correct; however, other posters have branched the discussion. And as to your calling my server "backwater", maybe we aren't as incompetent as yours. Maybe you could do something about it.... like switch servers. All I hear is oh, woe is me. People have switched servers to get alex, marrows, and other items. why not go to others that have a more plentiful supply to get your HP Bayld.
    (2)

  9. #39
    Player Loir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protey View Post
    your definition of "effort" is strange. or you are a troll. or you are a gil buyer/botter. take your pick. Last I checked, either farming massive amounts of alexandrite/HP Bayld or farming gil to buy said items requires "effort".
    Botter troll gil buyer, used how many times in this discussion to people denouncing your opinion on effort being used regards to mythic and ergon. The discussion was in regards to the original post and I have already stated that in contrast to the farminig methods for alexandrite and relation to the supply that HP bayld is severly lacking in that regard. Your server is incompetent, you are proof enough it seems.
    (6)

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loir View Post
    Botter troll gil buyer, used how many times in this discussion to people denouncing your opinion on effort being used regards to mythic and ergon. The discussion was in regards to the original post and I have already stated that in contrast to the farminig methods for alexandrite and relation to the supply that HP bayld is severly lacking in that regard. Your server is incompetent, you are proof enough it seems.
    my responses were logical reasonings for what they chose to say, it was not on effort being used regards to mythic and ergon, but rather people stating that it doesn't require effort. Please explain how getting hundreds of millions of gil worth of items doesn't require effort? I can only think of botting/gil buying. If you have another way of obtaining without effort, please provide one.

    If you paid attention to what I said, I already agreed before that HP Bayld acquisition is low and should be made comparable to that of mythics... but hey you don't bother to mention that.

    How am I proof that my server is incompetent? Or is this another one of your false logical arguments?
    (1)

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