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Thread: Useless spells

  1. #51
    Player Raydeus's Avatar
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    Jun 2013
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    Guys, what are you all talking about?

    I was very happy to hear RDM will finally get an upgrade in Sword, Dagger and Enhancing skill rating and that Enhancing spells will be adjusted so they scale much better at higher skill levels and with a much higher cap on their effects as well.


    ...eh? What do you mean what did I smoke? I'm sure that's that what the flying Quadav fairy told me when my party of merry mandragoras and me were traveling on the yellow cermet road to reach the Wizard of Zilart, so I could warp back home.

    Just ask my pet Shan-toto, she was there too!
    (1)
    'Don't ever, ever try to lie to the internet. Because they will catch you. They will de-construct your spin. They will remember everything you ever say for eternity.'
    - Lord Gaben

  2. #52
    Player Dale's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    802
    Character
    Jeremi
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Demonjustin View Post
    One of RDM's issues comes in the form of accuracy, a skill buff would help mitigate that issue directly. I wouldn't say put us at A+, no, but B+ or A would be just fine in my opinion. Another thing that should be mentioned is the fact that they're addressing physical skills and yet our Shield Skill is still at F rank. I know I've said it multiple times before, but honestly F rank shield skill means we're floored on block rate on basically anything we'd ever fight. Even in pure Shield Skill gear I think we barely hit around 440ish, ignoring the fact that said gear would be absolutely terrible for general use that's still only putting us at around the same skill as a level 99 naked PLD...
    Didn't you say earlier you easily cut though very/incredibly toughs with your Red Mage melee without using distract or any accuracy support trusts? Now suddenly you are saying we have accuracy issues? I have a hard time understanding your complaints.

    Anyway: I do half way agree with you here (though your previous posts seem to conflict with your current one) that Red Mages have a disadvantage in terms of accuracy when compared to melee jobs due to our lower rank. Where we disagree is you see this as a problem and I don't really. Because in the end this job is - a support mage- and not a melee class. And if you gear appropriately and make the needed sacrifices it is possible to overcome our accuracy issues. So it's a problem you can easily solve.

    It appears you think we should have great shield skill too now as well. It seems you want everything. But we already have excellent defense potential so giving us a high shield skill would make us too powerful. That is an advantage Paladins have and need to keep.

    To be honest, the greatest impediment to Red Mage melee is not our accuracy. It's not our En Spells II. Nor is it our lower rank in sword. It is simply put that our role in combat is that of support - and that is where we are expected to perform to our fullest and at times melee can complicate our ability to do this. So how well we can melee depends almost entirely on the situation and how well balanced our current group is.

    Part of what makes a Red Mage so powerful is it can adapt to pitch-hit for many different roles in a variety of different situations. And from what I have seen, they are better at this than any other job.
    (1)
    Last edited by Dale; 10-02-2014 at 11:46 PM.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale View Post
    Didn't you say earlier you easily cut though very/incredibly toughs with your Red Mage melee without using distract or any accuracy support trusts? Now suddenly you are saying we have accuracy issues? I have a hard time understanding your complaints.

    Anyway: I do half way agree with you here (though your previous posts seem to conflict with your current one) that Red Mages have a disadvantage in terms of accuracy when compared to melee jobs due to our lower rank. Where we disagree is you see this as a problem and I don't really. Because in the end this job is - a support mage- and not a melee class. And if you gear appropriately and make the needed sacrifices it is possible to overcome our accuracy issues. So it's a problem you can easily solve.

    It appears you think we should have great shield skill too now as well. It seems you want everything. But we already have excellent defense potential so giving us a high shield skill would make us too powerful. That is an advantage Paladins have and need to keep.

    To be honest, the greatest impediment to Red Mage melee is not our accuracy. It's not our En Spells II. Nor is it our lower rank in sword. It is simply put that our role in combat is that of support - and that is where we are expected to perform to our fullest and at times melee can complicate our ability to do this. So how well we can melee depends almost entirely on the situation and how well balanced our current group is.

    Part of what makes a Red Mage so powerful is it can adapt to pitch-hit for many different roles in a variety of different situations. And from what I have seen, they are better at this than any other job.
    you agreed with what I said in the other thread that RDM is a jack-of-all-trades, but then you go and say this. RDM is NOT just a support class. It is ALL classes. We can melee, tank, cure, enhance, enfeeble.... all at the same time!
    (0)

  4. #54
    Player Dale's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Character
    Jeremi
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
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    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Protey View Post
    you agreed with what I said in the other thread that RDM is a jack-of-all-trades, but then you go and say this. RDM is NOT just a support class. It is ALL classes. We can melee, tank, cure, enhance, enfeeble.... all at the same time!
    That's because I think you can describe Red Mage as a support class and still recognize it as a jack of all trades. To me these two descriptions don't conflict. Because in many ways that's how a Red Mage offers support to their group, by applying their jack of all trades potential and strengthening the group where it matters most.

    So I don't think we disagree. I just use the term support more broadly than you would.

    But in any case, my point in the post you quoted was that because of the Red Mage's versatility I feel a lower rank in sword is justified.
    (0)
    Last edited by Dale; 10-03-2014 at 04:25 AM.

  5. #55
    Player Zekander's Avatar
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    Sep 2014
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    Character
    Zekander
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Actually it was me saying I was able to easily melee VT/IT mob, not Demonjustin. And these are mobs in the old areas, who's stats are significantly lower then mobs of the same level in adoulin areas. Also I don't have a parser so I'm just eyeballing my accuracy, it's probably actually somewhere between 65-75% which it's pretty much not acceptable when meleeing in a party.

    I personally don't think RDM should get a buff to their shield skill, mostly because I don't see RDM as a tank, though I know it has been used as such in the past but that was usually sub NIN making a shield pretty useless anyway.

    As I mentioned in my other thread, I don't want a buff in sword skill solely to increase DD output. I want it because it would slightly change public opinion about what it is acceptable for RDM to do. Yes, RDM can already melee competently in most cases, but as long as their primary weapon skill is so low you will always be laughed at when you try to actually do so. That is what I most want to change.
    (0)

  6. #56
    Player Dale's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    802
    Character
    Jeremi
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Zekander View Post
    Actually it was me saying I was able to easily melee VT/IT mob, not Demonjustin. And these are mobs in the old areas, who's stats are significantly lower then mobs of the same level in adoulin areas. Also I don't have a parser so I'm just eyeballing my accuracy, it's probably actually somewhere between 65-75% which it's pretty much not acceptable when meleeing in a party.

    I personally don't think RDM should get a buff to their shield skill, mostly because I don't see RDM as a tank, though I know it has been used as such in the past but that was usually sub NIN making a shield pretty useless anyway.

    As I mentioned in my other thread, I don't want a buff in sword skill solely to increase DD output. I want it because it would slightly change public opinion about what it is acceptable for RDM to do. Yes, RDM can already melee competently in most cases, but as long as their primary weapon skill is so low you will always be laughed at when you try to actually do so. That is what I most want to change.
    Oh was it you? In any case, I melee even the high level monsters in Adoulin with my Red Mage. So it's not something unique to lower level content.

    Also you need to find better people to play with Zekander if they laugh at you when you melee with your RDM. Cause they sound like unpleasant people. And SE shouldn't take try to appeal to such types when designing a class. Because close-minded people who think their way of doing things are the only way will always look down on other jobs or styles that do not fit into their own very limited definition of the right way to play. You just aren't going to change people like that no matter what rank you give Red Mages. And it's best just to ignore people like that anyway. You are the one paying your subscription not them. So if you want to melee I would.

    Far as Red Mages as tank - even without ninja sub - Red Mage is capable of some pretty nice defense. I like to sub Blue Mage now and then for example. With phalanx+cocoon and some defense food, Red Mages can take hits nearly as good as my paladin, though minus the shield block. But seeing as Paladin is suppose to be the best job in the game at physical defense, I see nothing wrong with that. And neither do you. So on this at least, we agree.
    (0)
    Last edited by Dale; 10-06-2014 at 11:31 PM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Demonjustin View Post
    Stuff.
    Reply to stuff.
    I posted my reply to you in this thread here for the sake of sparing this thread the continued off topic discussion, I hope you'll join me there.
    (0)

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zekander View Post
    Actually it was me saying I was able to easily melee VT/IT mob, not Demonjustin. And these are mobs in the old areas, who's stats are significantly lower then mobs of the same level in adoulin areas. Also I don't have a parser so I'm just eyeballing my accuracy, it's probably actually somewhere between 65-75% which it's pretty much not acceptable when meleeing in a party.

    I personally don't think RDM should get a buff to their shield skill, mostly because I don't see RDM as a tank, though I know it has been used as such in the past but that was usually sub NIN making a shield pretty useless anyway.

    As I mentioned in my other thread, I don't want a buff in sword skill solely to increase DD output. I want it because it would slightly change public opinion about what it is acceptable for RDM to do. Yes, RDM can already melee competently in most cases, but as long as their primary weapon skill is so low you will always be laughed at when you try to actually do so. That is what I most want to change.
    even with /nin, Beatific Shield +1 is great for tanking. why? AoE stuff.

    as for accuracy: even on Ircinraq I have capped accuracy as long as I am getting the same buffs as the other DDs (which I insist on getting; give me mp songs/rolls and I will make your life miserable). Mind you my accuracy set is the best possible there is, but even if other RDM don't have that perfect acc+ set, they can still have a decent hit rate on 99.99% of mobs.

    So does this mean I think RDM shouldn't get a boost in sword/dagger skill? No. But, I think it should be a minor upgrade, either B+ or A-
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    Last edited by Protey; 10-03-2014 at 07:48 AM.

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