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  1. #21
    Player Ataraxia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    146
    Character
    Angelicsmile
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by FrankReynolds View Post
    I'm not even gonna debate you on what dnc can and can't do. If you think dnc is okay, then by all means keep telling the developers how great it is. I'm sure they would be happy to never update it again.
    how right you are about that Frank.
    (0)

  2. #22
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    317
    You can like something and be critical of it.

    I never understood the attitude of just being content because you like something. Dancer has problems. Byrths testimony is not indicative of it being this fantastic job. He outlines some of the variables that led to him parsing first (Sharkfin, better play (with a focus on SC vs the NIN) etc.) Byrth is incredibly smart and competent player, if everyone in his party was playing at his level I'm not so sure that he'd parse first.

    Those suggested changes by the dev team leave a lot to be desired, as Byrth says, there's very niche scenarios where they'd be useful. You're locked into maintaining the daze effect, you're sacrificing 8 seconds of TP and 30tp for 2.7% defense down. Contradance is nice but it's best use as an AoE erase is going to be hindered by it's recast.

    It's nice to see testimony with competent players doing this slightly different than the status quo, but it doesn't disprove what a lot of people are saying. You're sacrificing an element of ease to make that happen. I'm not so sure that any average joes could accomplice what Byrths group did, and if they could, it'd be easier to do it in a more traditional setup. As for dancer being able to complete harder content, most jobs can, puppetmaster can do VD battlefields. It's been shown in the past. the outlying cases should never be used as examples of job efficacy though. They're not representative of the grander scheme of things.

    Anyway, that's beside the point, these changes are a step in the right direction but I agree with Byrths overall conclusions. An AoE Healing Waltz and Increase 1-5 potency would have been a better solution. The changes outlined are going to be useful in very few situations.
    (5)
    Last edited by Balloon; 09-02-2014 at 08:12 AM.

  3. #23
    Player Byrth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,172
    Character
    Byrth
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ataraxia View Post
    Good Job Taru not only did you defeat the Jester Caturae and clear 555 Skirmish Eudaemon but you did it without a BRD or a COR. The cool part is that you bought a DNC and you out damage the monk but it was close with the ninja. This kind of set up and clear deserve a YouTube video. I'm going to call you a Super Tarutaru! =)
    Thanks, but my group contained 4 Mythics and 1 or 2 Relics:
    * Afterglow Terpsichore
    * Nagi (maybe Kikoku offhand? idk - He just returned and probably doesn't have another 119 Katana yet)
    * Yagrush
    * Spharai
    * Nirvana

    And the point was that we actually didn't clear the 5/5/5 Skirmish with a group tailored for Dancer (the boss appears randomly, not on the last floor). We were probably 1 floor away from clearing it, but we had to use our keys and leave. My point was that we could have taken a more traditional group (perhaps one involving my RME BRD) and pulled out an easy clear in less time. Dancer is lacking as a job.

    The secondary point was that the proposed Step changes (and Contradance) would have had no substantial effect on our odds of winning. They don't/won't help Dancer address its problems.
    (4)
    Last edited by Byrth; 09-02-2014 at 10:22 AM.

  4. #24
    Player Astrael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    6
    Character
    Astrael
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Please don't mistake my enthusiasm for the job to mean I am not critical of any shortcomings. The only reason I even specifically state what I've used the job in is to establish the fact I do use this job often in all endgame content relevant to the update because I am an unknown here, not to show that the job is perfect as is. I just simply like the fact DNC is so versatile as a frontline job, and try to push it as far as it can go.

    No one knows who I am here, and that's fine, I prefer staying low key. I am not here to fight or compete with people, nor do I think the job is perfect, but I do love the job and wanted to discuss it more openly with others that might. I am just not going to focus entirely on negatives--that's not who I am. I still like this update as it addresses one thing that has always irritated me, and that's giving DNC main something that /DNC can't do just as well (or even possibly overwrite with their own Steps, looking at you Perpetuance Haste). If they continue to give DNC attention in the 50+ levels that separates it from those who sub DNC (outside of stronger heals), then I'd be even happier. But, just because I like the promise of this particular update doesn't mean I am even remotely content with it.

    In any case, I apologize for ruffling any feathers as I seem to have incurred some pushback for my debut on these forums. Byrth, specifically, thank you for taking the time to bring your DNC out again specifically to address these concerns, it was interesting to read another perspective.
    (2)

  5. #25
    Community Rep Grekumah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    349
    I would like to inform you all about future dancer adjustments that are being worked on.

    In the September version update, we will be boosting dancer’s support capabilities when playing in parties and alliances by making adjustments to steps.

    The enfeebling effects of steps will not be resisted by monsters as long as you have the proper amount of accuracy, so they are easy to use on harder monsters, and they will become even stronger with effects from enfeebling magic and geomancy spells.

    In regards to the fact that it takes a bit of time to reach the cap of the enfeebling effects, there is a possibility of adjustments in the future; however, we’d first like everyone to try it out and we’ll be keeping an eye on the situation after it is implemented.

    Additionally, in the future we will be making other adjustments to dancer and we are planning to increase their maximum dagger skill as well as other aspects to enhance their damage dealing capability.

    While dancer is a job that possesses many talents, we will be making adjustments here on out that focus on the fact that they are indeed a damage dealing job.

    Finally, just as a note, when it comes to Contradance we do not have any plans to further enhance dancer as a healer role, and as such we will not be reducing the recast timer.
    (11)
    Colby "Grekumah" Casaccia - Community Team

  6. #26
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    317
    Quote Originally Posted by Grekumah View Post
    Dancer is a job that possesses many talents, we will be making adjustments here on out that focus on the fact that they are indeed a damage dealing job.
    This is incredibly promising to hear.
    (0)

  7. #27
    Player Byrth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,172
    Character
    Byrth
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Grekumah View Post
    In regards to the fact that it takes a bit of time to reach the cap of the enfeebling effects, there is a possibility of adjustments in the future; however, we’d first like everyone to try it out and we’ll be keeping an eye on the situation after it is implemented.
    I hope that you guys respond to feedback on this, because I strongly suspect that most people won't see level 6+ dazes very often with the proposed system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grekumah View Post
    Additionally, in the future we will be making other adjustments to dancer and we are planning to increase their maximum dagger skill as well as other aspects to enhance their damage dealing capability.

    While dancer is a job that possesses many talents, we will be making adjustments here on out that focus on the fact that they are indeed a damage dealing job.
    This is very promising. I look forward to seeing how the job is adjusted and I very much like the tone here. On a slightly less positive note, I would like to register that +20 Attack/16 Acc (404->424 Dagger skill) would not really make a substantial difference at the moment (though it wouldn't hurt).

    Quote Originally Posted by Grekumah View Post
    Finally, just as a note, when it comes to Contradance we do not have any plans to further enhance dancer as a healer role, and as such we will not be reducing the recast timer.
    I believe this is also the correct choice. Dancer is (unfortunately) fatally flawed as a solo healer for the reasons listed in the OP. Fixing it would create a job that could keep a party alive while DDing from within AoE range. It would be too broken.
    (5)

  8. #28
    Player Xsilver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    62
    Character
    Highwynn
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Perhaps allow DNC above a certain level to inflict multiple levels of Steps per Step use. Say DNC under level 90, when using a Step, will only inflict "Daze Level 1" per step use. At level 95 or 99, Dancers, when using Steps, will inflict a mob with a level 2 step each time they use a step, thus a DNC will be able to reach level 6 in only 3 Steps instead of 6. Basically a fulltime Presto, but without the extra Finishing Moves. Using Presto would give you a level 3 daze. Or allow high level DNC to inflict Level 2 Daze if it's the first Step used on a mob(mob currently has no dazes), so that would mean only needing to use steps 4 times to inflict lv6. Basically the idea is to be able to reach lv6 daze sooner without slowing down the DNC's auto attacks much since their abilities heavily rely on TP.
    (1)
    Last edited by Xsilver; 09-06-2014 at 07:03 AM.

  9. #29
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    317
    Adjusting step potency by 20% every 10 levels from 50 gives the same result without the need to apply 10 steps. The need to apply 10 steps is really killing their debuffing potential, there's just no way it can be done that quickly on most fights. And the need to maintain.. It's not ideal.
    (3)
    Last edited by Balloon; 09-08-2014 at 07:21 PM.

  10. #30
    Player Karbuncle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,314
    I'm okay with DNC getting A- Dagger skill these days, but I thought the Accuracy bonus job traits were there to supplement the lower skill compared to THF?

    No complaints here but... yah know.. if ya wanna give THF accuracy bonus too then... I'd be okay with it.
    (1)

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