[dev1229] 6 new BST jugs. No stats or abilities mentioned ..

**ZoMBie343** · 08-28-2014 02:40 PM

I noticed that SE did not mention any details with respect to the 6 new BST jugs in September.

These new pets look very, very ordinary....but you neglected to share any stats or abilities with us.

I hope that is because their stats are just too good to mention....right?....please?

**WoW** · 08-28-2014 03:57 PM

**dasva** · 08-28-2014 04:51 PM

If I'm not mistaken there are no subspecies of slugs... as far as keeping with those eco systems the top monsters I'd have liked to see as compared to monstrosity would be:

Beasts: Honestly sheep isn't that bad... though ram is a strictly better sheep. But what I'd really want (besides the nm type ones of course) is Gnole if it gets Cacophony at a charge/duration that would let you full time it or Lapinion with Wild Ginseng

Vermin: Midge if it gets either Booming bomb. and the effects land or Cimcine discharge assuming the haste is comparable (regular gnat for that too), coral wamoura for benumbing blaze either wamoura for erratic flutter.

Aquan: Definitely Limascabra

Amorph: Probably sandworm just for coolness factor... though I'd want gigaworm in the slim hopes of getting Psyche suction. Slug is a decent runner up especially if the hp down can land. As is Obdella assuming again you can land moves

Plantoid: Sabotender Florido for 4k and Chupa blossom, Rafflesia for seedspary/bloody carcass. And assuming you can land Petalback spin Pachypodium. Though for other mandies Adenium's Phaeosynthesis is very good.

Lizard: Wivre definitely though abyssobugard is rather strong

Also speaking of mons... seeing as it seems clear that jugs are going to be kept in the can only use moves every few minutes and still be weaker than than the other pet jobs that can spam them category why not allow them things that mons get like say use of applicable non sp job abilities or spells?

**Karbuncle** · 08-29-2014 12:56 PM

If we get any of the things you want (fat chance), I hope they're sized down considerably... A Mini-Sandworm is not outside the realm of possibility though, which would be cool... and outside of Turtle-Man (and I guess Coral Crab), are there any pets we get that have their HNM TP moves? I think not... but I havent looked at many of them lately what with the state of beast :|

**Glamdring** · 09-16-2014 08:23 AM

a review: I've now used all 6 of the new purchased jugs in surging WoE, wearing 5/5 119 Bst Relic gear, the 119 skirmish axe (augmented, but nothing for the pet as there are no augments for pets available), the 115 axe from wildkeepers, pastoralist's mantle, kuru belt(?) and a ferine necklace, other gear but nothing with effect on the pets, 5/5 beast affinity merits, full timed all of the above to give a stable sample. The results are-as you would expect based on all the observations in other threads-predictably disappointing. It isn't simply the accuracy issue which SE claims they are addressing (until I see it, they are not) the melee attack power is also low, about 1/3 of mine as bst/dnc. Oh, and intimidation effects with the proper beast progressions are non-existent.

They did last longer than I expected, not by virtue of any great defense but because they never had hate so were only getting hit by AoE damage. The one surge where I tried to solo with a pet he lasted 45 seconds, with a reward (pet food eta) and a healing Salve II (that was the slug). All 6 pets averaged about 115 damage, hitting about 1/5 of their attempts from the chat spam. no worries about charges for ready moves, at the rate they accumulated TP with spur all charges were available whenever sufficient TP to use a ready move was available. The only plusses (if there are any), about 1/3 of the hits they did land were criticals, those averaged about 285 damage, and when the mob would run the pet gives chase, making your target easy to follow.

so, overall assessment, beastmaster is a liability in group play, and solo can only work with trust NPCs if using jugs. They are simply too ineffectual and quite frankly cost-prohibitive based on return for your money. So, the only utility for beast is in non-instanced content with jugs restricted to reives and charmed pets used everywhere else (and frankly I would start the reive with a charmed pet if at all possible, calling a jug if the charm dies). The trust NPCs are because pets cannot be used as tanks anymore, even jugs with snarl after a weapon skill, hate is back on the master in at most 3 swings and they cannot be used with you standing off, they don't last long enough to finish a fight without the master's melee DD contributions.

I fought all the same surged WoE with my smn using the eminent sachet to set level (so 115 avatars). Melee hits were only about 77 on average but they lasted just as long, defensive BPs work outside alliance, offensive BPs were averaging about 1300 (my summoning skill is still only 362) and accuracy was much better than jugs for both melee and BP, and the pets cost nothing.

SE, you have some SERIOUS work to do, unless beast nerfing was intentional, in which case I think we all would like to see the admission of your intent on that. To call me less than impressed is an understatement.

**ZoMBie343** · 09-16-2014 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Falkirk

New Jug Pets:

Warlike Patrick (Natural Cap: 104)
Costs 200 gil/ea
Atk Adj: +30%
Def Adj: -20%

Code:

Level   Accuracy   Attack    Evasion    Defense    Max HP
  99       482      614        418        353       5372
 100       498      635        434        366
 101       507      638        442        373
 104       555      700        485        412       5400
 105       571      722        500        425
 106       587      741        515        438
 109       635      804        558        476
 113       700      888        617        528
 115       732      928        646        554
 117       764      971        675        579
 119       796      1011       704        605       5508

Rhyming Shizuna (Natural Cap: 107)
Costs 344 gil/ea.
Atk Adj: +10%
Def Adj: +30%

Code:

Level   Accuracy   Attack    Evasion    Defense    Max HP
  99       469      523        418        575       5688
 100       485      541        434        596
 101       494      543        442        609
 105       558      614        500        692
 106       574      631        515        711
 107       590      648        529        734       5740
 109       622      683        558        774
 113       687      755        617        858
 115       719      789        646        900
 117       751      825        675        941
 119       783      859        704        983       5832

Amiable Roche (Natural Cap: 110)
Costs 591 gil/ea.
Atk Adj: +40%
Def Adj: -10%

Code:

Level   Accuracy   Attack    Evasion    Defense    Max HP
  99       479      662        421        400       5056
 100       495      685        437        415
 101       504      688        445        424
 105       568      778        503        481
 106       584      799        518        495
 109       632      867        561        538
 110       647      889        575        553       5124
 113       697      957        620        597
 115       729      1001       649        626
 117       761      1047       678        655
 119       793      1090       707        683       5184

Brainy Waluis (Natural Cap: 113)
Costs 1016 gil/ea.
Atk Adj: None
Def Adj: None

Code:

Level   Accuracy   Attack    Evasion    Defense    Max HP
  99       489      477        418        444       5372
 100       505      493        434        460
 101       514      495        442        470
 105       578      560        500        534
 106       594      575        515        549
 109       642      623        558        597
 113       707      688        617        662       5464
 115       739      719        646        694
 117       771      752        675        726
 119       803      783        704        758       5508

Hurler Percival (Natural Cap: 116)
Costs 1747 gil/ea.
Atk Adj: +20%
Def Adj: None

Code:

Level   Accuracy   Attack    Evasion    Defense    Max HP
  99       466      542        404        509       4862
 100       482      561        420        525
 101       491      563        428        534
 105       555      641        486        598
 106       571      659        501        614
 109       619      717        544        662
 113       684      795        603        727
 115       716      832        632        759
 116       732      851        647        775       4968
 117       748      871        661        791
 119       780      909        690        823       4988

Generous Arthur (Natural Cap: 119)
Costs 3004 gil/ea.
Atk Adj: -20%
Def Adj: +30%
En-slow effect

Code:

Level   Accuracy   Attack    Evasion    Defense    Max HP
  99       469      379        412        579       4740
 100       485      392        428        600
 101       494      393        437        613
 105       558      446        495        696
 106       574      458        509        715
 109       622      496        552        778
 113       687      548        611        862
 115       719      573        640        903
 117       751      599        669        945
 119       783      624        698        986       4860

Thank you Glamdring! I woud like to supplement your findings with additional support from those at Blugartr. Our pets' performance is absolutely terrible! Please fix Beastmaster!

**Olor** · 09-17-2014 06:15 AM

Dear SE, when will we get pets that are not garbage?

Love,

Olor

**Glamdring** · 09-17-2014 07:42 AM

Just curious, where is whoever in BG getting natural caps for these jugs? I would have to assume .dat mining, I've never seen any method of getting a firm number for that by just testing. not disputing the per level stats though, that gels with what I was seeing.

and to echo Olor, if you won't give us decent jugs then let us charm in instances again, there was nothing broken about it for the 8+ years where that was the norm after all, why would it be broken now?

**Olor** · 09-18-2014 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by Glamdring

Just curious, where is whoever in BG getting natural caps for these jugs?

I think they use the HP to calculate it somehow... but not sure. I'll ask the folks who test them.

**Olor** · 09-18-2014 08:56 AM

So the person who does these calculations (Bookmarku on the Zam) answered this:

Figuring out the level caps is a simple (but time-consuming) process. It used to be a lot more tedious before /checkparam became a thing.

First step is to remove all Beast Affinity merits, then call the pet with an iLvl 119 Axe equipped to figure out what its natural cap stats are (remove all other gear and take into consideration any Pet:Stat+ from Axe/Job Points).

Second step is to merit Beast Affinity 5/5 and then use Ankusa Gloves/+1 in combination with a variety of iLvl Axes to determine what the pet's stats look like at a variety of levels. We have 11 different iLvls that we can check directly (99, 100, 101, 105, 106, 109, 113, 115, 117, 118, 119), though I don't have Budliqa +1 so I can't directly test iLvl 118. If the jug pet's natural cap stats match one of these levels, you're done.

If you haven't found a match by this point, you at least have narrowed it down to a particular range and there's an additional step that can be used. In the recent case of Warlike Patrick (who caps at iLvl 104) there currently is no iLvl Axe we can use to summon an exact match to the natural cap version, but we can use Max HP to work it out. I always check the Max HP at level 99/natural cap/119 by using Healing Salve in Abyssea (lower pet's health to < 50% then use Healing Salve and multiply the amount healed x 2). Something to keep in mind for this, though there are a couple of exceptions, but for the majority of pets there is no increase in Max HP at level 100. So, for Warlike Patrick:

Level.........Max HP
99...........5372
100...........5372

Natural Cap.....5400
119............5508

The average Max HP increase from level 100 -> 119 is +7.1 HP per Level.
We know from step 2 that the natural cap stats are greater than level 101 and less than level 105, So when we fill in the blanks, we see...

Level............Max HP
99................5372
100...............5372
101...............5379.1
102...............5386.2
103...............5393.3
104...............5400.4 <- There's the natural cap!
...
119................5508

So yeah, the process is more or less like that.

The cap for some pets like BrainyWaluis and GenerousArthur are quickly identified, and others like Warlike Patrick need additional investigation, but it's relatively simple. Maybe someday they'll follow through and actually include the iLvl info in the jug description!

link to their post: http://www.zam.com/forum.html?forum=...68956&p=10#494

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[dev1229] 6 new BST jugs. No stats or abilities mentioned ..

Fix our pets!

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