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  1. #1
    Player Tptn937's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    42
    Character
    Warusha
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLM Lv 99

    High Tier Elemental Magic [dev1229]

    We have been told twice now (in two years) that high tier elemental magic would receive a boost. The recent skill chain adjustment has made it so that any melee job is able to deal more magical damage than BLM SCH GEO RDM SMN yet again. Why has this not been addressed in the last two monthly updates?
    (2)

  2. #2
    Player Rubicant82's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Windhurst
    Posts
    290
    Character
    Rubican
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    BLM Lv 99
    Because we BLMs are not SAM that is why /sigh
    But honestly tweaking the magic system is most likely a little harder than the weaponskills. We did get a good adjustment about a year ago or so when they did all that equalization stuff with the elemental magic, have faith, the mages will be back up there soon (I hope anyway).
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    447
    With a Geo present or a Blm MBing off of a Sam, nuking is actually pretty strong. They've always seemed overly cautious when it comes to boosting magic damage, so they might still be holding to a "wait and see" pattern.

    For reference, an Idris Geo using Malaise gives -44 MDB, which makes nukes hit for almost 2.5x as much. Acumen also gives +55 MAB.
    (0)
    7/10/14

  4. #4
    Player Byrth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,172
    Character
    Byrth
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Malithar View Post
    which makes nukes hit for almost 2.5x as much.
    Assuming the monster has 100 MDB to start with (most NMs have 140-200), -44 MDB would be almost 1.8x as much, not 2.5. Furthermore, MDB appears to have a minimum of 50 (or a maximum reduction of -50).

    This does interact with target base MDB if you assume it MDB has a minimum of 50 and you can end up with a >2x reduction if you use Bolster. Here is the percentage increase in magic damage compared to base target MDB for Bolstered Indris Malaise and Vidohunir (-98 MDB) assuming that MDB has a minimum value of 50:

    X axis is increasing base MDB and Y Axis is percentage increase in magic damage. So you can see that this combination of debuffs (if it works as we think) will increase damage by almost 190% (2.9x) on monsters with 150 MDB and generally at least doubles magic damage up to 200 MDB, which is probably safely the NM range.

    +55 MAB is something like +14% damage for my black mage, so that's nice too.



    So the debuffs and buffs are good, but they're not the 5x damage that melees get from Haste.
    (6)
    Last edited by Byrth; 08-29-2014 at 07:28 PM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    447
    Was gonna get with Dasva and test just that (minimum 50 MDB or maximum reduction of -50 MDB) this weekend. Good to see that chart, didn't realize that about it. And you're right about the amount, was remembering it as Stone I 1390 >> 3018, but was 1690 >> 3018. XD
    (0)
    7/10/14

  6. #6
    Community Rep Grekumah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    349
    I checked on this, but currently there are no plans.
    (3)
    Colby "Grekumah" Casaccia - Community Team

  7. #7
    Player Xsilver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    62
    Character
    Highwynn
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    I think BLM and nukers in general were balanced to be able to deal high damage "on demand" meaning without having to swing a weapon and gain TP whereas a nuker could theoretically spam nukes back to back until their MP runs dry. Additionally, I think the damage of BLM was set to be lower than a hasted melee because a melee faces risks that BLMs do not such as being killed by AoEs, amnesia, doom, DoT, petrify etc. Melee DPS on any given relevant mob is stymied by TP moves with stun or knockback etc, whereas a BLM can sit back at a safe distance, eat some cookies and drop damage.

    It's similar with Rangers too. Everyone thinks Rangers are top tier dd in terms of damage, but RNG DPS isn't that high compared to MNK or SAM, it's just that unlike MNK or SAM, RNG can deal comparable damage(less so actually) but be hateless and safe, away from Arrogance Incarnate or other crappy TP moves. Yet their damage will never beat out a fully hasted melee job because melee face more risks. There's probably an algorithim for calculating proposed DPS changes for jobclasses at SE, whereby there's some function of DPS vs Risk. High risk jobs like melee are higher tier'd DPS jobs than RNG or BLM which deal damage from far away(and are not too handicapped when weakened; unlike melee which are virtually worthless when weakened).
    (0)
    Last edited by Xsilver; 08-27-2014 at 06:52 AM.

  8. #8
    hateless is a new development. magic and rng damage used to be the kings in the game, the trade-off being that it took at most 2 shots from the mob to have a blm or rng pushing up daisies, that was the balance, coupled with MP cost and resulting downtime or the cost of ammo for rangers. and believe me, the same screaming DDs who will not allow tanks to hold hate get now, mages and rangers were hearing it then. Now, ranger was nerfed for most of a decade when they added the "sweet spot" but mages were never nerfed. What happened is that melees were buffed, then buffed, then buffed until they surpassed both. SE recently addressed rnagers and put them back essentially where they originally were, they didn't scale the damage back up but they dramatically reduced the cost of ammo via recycle and gave them enmity tools so they can go all out. They did some of that with the equalization update for mages but it hasn't been anywhere near as effective because top damage hasn't moved, just MP cost. I mean, AM is supposed to be awesome, instead it is universally regarded as a waste of time due to casting time vs. yield, as you can do more damage by casting 3 times in the same time for less MP, and less hate spikes. I'd say OP has a reasonable point. I would also say that if SE made nukers the damage kings again the whining melee rants would drive us to the brink of suicide.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player Snprphnx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    28
    Character
    Snprphnx
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RNG Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Xsilver View Post
    I think BLM and nukers in general were balanced to be able to deal high damage "on demand" meaning without having to swing a weapon and gain TP whereas a nuker could theoretically spam nukes back to back until their MP runs dry. Additionally, I think the damage of BLM was set to be lower than a hasted melee because a melee faces risks that BLMs do not such as being killed by AoEs, amnesia, doom, DoT, petrify etc. Melee DPS on any given relevant mob is stymied by TP moves with stun or knockback etc, whereas a BLM can sit back at a safe distance, eat some cookies and drop damage.

    It's similar with Rangers too. Everyone thinks Rangers are top tier dd in terms of damage, but RNG DPS isn't that high compared to MNK or SAM, it's just that unlike MNK or SAM, RNG can deal comparable damage(less so actually) but be hateless and safe, away from Arrogance Incarnate or other crappy TP moves. Yet their damage will never beat out a fully hasted melee job because melee face more risks. There's probably an algorithim for calculating proposed DPS changes for jobclasses at SE, whereby there's some function of DPS vs Risk. High risk jobs like melee are higher tier'd DPS jobs than RNG or BLM which deal damage from far away(and are not too handicapped when weakened; unlike melee which are virtually worthless when weakened).

    You should maybe reevaluate your assumption about RNG. Historically, you are correct. However depending on buffs, with Flurry 2 (30% ranged delay reduction, Coursers Roll (unknown/untested value), and Snapshot gear, Rangers are close to the delay cap. Add on top of that the ability to maintain a 4-hit build, and with the right buffs, a 3-hit build, Ranger has gotten a huge boost in the DPS department.

    The one thing that holds it back is, unless you are making a party setup for Rangers, it doesn't do well in a mixed setting, like being able to toss war, drk, mnk, and sam all in the same pt. Buffs will vary and will influence dps.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player Draylo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    778
    Quote Originally Posted by Grekumah View Post
    I checked on this, but currently there are no plans.
    lol, I know it isn't your fault but that is funny.
    (4)

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