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  1. #31
    Player Kari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    284
    Character
    Aisaka
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Karbuncle View Post
    I wish I wasn't the only who understood you the first time
    It wasn't a lack of understanding the situation, it was "How the hell are your servers and code THAT awful?"
    There's no reason this should cause any noticeable stress. Unless this ability is used thousands of times in a short period...
    (4)
    /人 ‿‿ 人\


  2. #32
    Player Karbuncle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,314
    I agree it shouldn't, but, yah, some people did miss the concept of his first post entirely.

    Also, based on how he described it, the background server load of this ability might be higher than you think... Its technically running "checks", maybe not a thousand times a second, but a high amount of checks to constantly keep track of both enmity generated and # of applicable players in range, so your entire party. So I mean, there's a good chance that it having to run checks to keep up with enmity and players in range you can steal from (with those players moving in and out of range alot), recalculating their enmity when they come back in range (if thats how it works) and the fact its a 13 year old game clearly not able to use the efficiency we enjoy in todays computers... I can see their reason as at least plausible.

    maybe not true, but I can conceive of its plausibility.
    (1)

  3. #33
    Player Ulth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    I think I might still be confused. The cause of the stress is from the number of mobs it has to check. You don't want to increase the range because you think it would cause more mobs to be checked. Wouldn't it make more sense instead limit the number of mobs it can check? Because if you aggro a room full of mobs they aren't going to politely wait outside of 10 yalms. I've seen people farming have a whole zone worth of mobs right on top of them. Also why does it need to check all the characters' enmity, wouldn't you need only the enmity of the character who is the target, and the character who is the user?
    (1)

  4. #34
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazusu View Post
    Perhaps they're using Pentium II processors (...or working with legacy spaghetti code)
    If they're still using the original servers from 2002, they may very well be Pentium IIIs running at sub-1GHz speeds.
    (0)

  5. #35
    Player FrankReynolds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,592
    Character
    Mrkillface
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    I'm confused because on the server side, it should need to keep track of EVERYONE's emnity in order for the game to function at all. If the server didn't always know who had hate and how much, some clever programmer would have skipped the claim bot and went straight to the "Take anything you want" bot.

    This reminds me of the time our website went down a slot in google's search rankings and the SEO manager calmly explained to the president that we had pissed off the robots.
    (1)

  6. #36
    Player Dazusu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    423
    Character
    Dazusu
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Karbuncle View Post
    I agree it shouldn't, but, yah, some people did miss the concept of his first post entirely.

    Also, based on how he described it, the background server load of this ability might be higher than you think... Its technically running "checks", maybe not a thousand times a second, but a high amount of checks to constantly keep track of both enmity generated and # of applicable players in range, so your entire party. So I mean, there's a good chance that it having to run checks to keep up with enmity and players in range you can steal from (with those players moving in and out of range alot), recalculating their enmity when they come back in range (if thats how it works) and the fact its a 13 year old game clearly not able to use the efficiency we enjoy in todays computers... I can see their reason as at least plausible.

    maybe not true, but I can conceive of its plausibility.
    Technically how the ability works; it needs to check the enmity of the player on mobs within an 11~ yalm radius. If you're standing within 11 yalms of 1 mob; it should run one loop (assuming the collection of monsters is narrowed down by radius); or 768 possible NPCs if not; but 767 of these would be empty cycles with no result or action taken.

    Hardly intensive; in any programming language.

    Enmity is reduced by a % for each mob that qualifies; and the ability cycle ends.

    I would assume checks on enmity are only made if the monster being iterated over is within your range.

    Then again, this is SE, who knows how it works.

    I can see Geomancer abilities being far more server intensive with continual radius checks.
    (1)

  7. #37
    Player Malithar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    447
    Character
    Malothar
    World
    Bahamut
    Main Class
    GEO Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazusu View Post
    I can see Geomancer abilities being far more server intensive with continual radius checks.
    These are actually handled in a really annoying way. They're applied in tics like most other things, but this means that it's entirely possible to miss a tic if you step out of a bubble at the wrong time, and be without the buff for 3 seconds. Awkwardly enough, I've even missed my own Indi buff before when moving.
    (2)
    7/10/14

  8. #38
    Player Randnum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    70
    Character
    Risae
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 90
    Well, two points, which I'd be happy to have 'torn apart'.

    Firstly, haven't we all known for the longest time that there's something additional done when hate values change largely? Hate resets on mobs don't cause them to immediately change their target, something else must happen. I think we're all familiar with things like Resheph's Tarsal Slam where the hate reset takes place after. This might be a consequence, or it might be a workaround of something else, but either way it's a strong indication that when hate values change heavily for things other than damage, at least, weird mechanics are involved (possibly trigger based?).

    The second thing is, as I'm understanding this, if you want the range increased, you are talking about the THF being able to attempt to steal enmity for target player on all mobs within a certain range of the THF, right? We want to 'stay closer to mob yet take more enmity off targets'. I'd see how the 'reduce number of mobs checked' would work. I don't know about others but I actually purposely do use those abilities often to grab hate off a large number of enemies.

    It sounds like what is desired should still be possible though. Increase range at which THF can target another player, leave range of 'enemies around THF that are checked for enmity change' the same. This should only matter if the two are related, right? No matter where the load comes from, if the only thing changed is 'distance that target player can be at', there should be no change in load.
    (0)

  9. #39
    Player Karbuncle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,314
    Quote Originally Posted by Dazusu View Post
    Technically how the ability works; it needs to check the enmity of the player on mobs within an 11~ yalm radius. If you're standing within 11 yalms of 1 mob; it should run one loop (assuming the collection of monsters is narrowed down by radius); or 768 possible NPCs if not; but 767 of these would be empty cycles with no result or action taken.

    Hardly intensive; in any programming language.

    Enmity is reduced by a % for each mob that qualifies; and the ability cycle ends.

    I would assume checks on enmity are only made if the monster being iterated over is within your range.

    Then again, this is SE, who knows how it works.

    I can see Geomancer abilities being far more server intensive with continual radius checks.
    Hardly intensive for what is assuredly a 13 year old MMO server? IDK, maybe, but thats just one equation among many others.
    (0)

  10. #40
    Player FrankReynolds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,592
    Character
    Mrkillface
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Karbuncle View Post
    Hardly intensive for what is assuredly a 13 year old MMO server? IDK, maybe, but thats just one equation among many others.
    I'm sure that whatever it runs on has / can be moved to a VM on incredibly cheap hardware by today's standards quite easily. They really have no excuse.
    (0)

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