"THe Development Team Does Not Currently Have Plans Too..."

[Malithar]

I dunno why you quoted me, but yes. lol Although tbh I don't think they really read/listen to the complaints about jobs, or Bst and Pup would be the most amazing jobs ever. They may take some things into account, but QQ about job representation falls on deaf ears I'd imagine.

[Glamdring]

I'm still seeing plenty of rng shouts on ragnarok. AA are still done and frankly a rng can contribute in almost anything, especially with a brd or rdm, or as I did last night, brd/rdm. Prelude + Flurry=lots of ballistic damage.

[Xerius]

I dunno why you quoted me, but yes. lol Although tbh I don't think they really read/listen to the complaints about jobs, or Bst and Pup would be the most amazing jobs ever. They may take some things into account, but QQ about job representation falls on deaf ears I'd imagine.

There's QQing and then there is having an actual reason to complain and obviously (I feel like I'm forced to reiterate this every other post) no one is expecting them to implement all or even most of our suggestions but jobs like BLM, SMN and THF have an actual gripe when it seems that the development team can't make up their minds on what they're supposed to do exactly and instead of addressing this they buff jobs that aren't even lacking.

[Malithar]

There's QQing and then there is having an actual reason to complain and obviously (I feel like I'm forced to reiterate this every other post) no one is expecting them to implement all or even most of our suggestions but jobs like BLM, SMN and THF have an actual gripe when it seems that the development team can't make up their minds on what they're supposed to do exactly and instead of addressing this they buff jobs that aren't even lacking.

You mean like the post where you said "it wasn't enough" in reference to Drg's buff, when you had absolutely no idea what/how they were buffed? Posts like that are the one's I hope devs just ignore to be frank.

What's wrong with Thf now? What's wrong with Blm now? Both have their niches and are capable jobs. Are they omgamazing top notch DDs? No. Should they be? No. A good Thf is in that range of 60-80%ish of a good DD, that's fine IMO. Give up a lil DD for better drops, and in most content as of late (Revamped BCs, Incursion, Aluvion Skirmish) TH does indeed help. Won't even touch the utility a Blm brings, never mind that it's the best DD-ish job capable of DDing with Sam without hampering it's DPS by interrupting SCs. A good Smn is plenty capable of being of value to a party, not every party, and it's not optimal, but being of value is enough in today's content.

[Afania]

You mean like the post where you said "it wasn't enough" in reference to Drg's buff, when you had absolutely no idea what/how they were buffed? Posts like that are the one's I hope devs just ignore to be frank.

What's wrong with Thf now? What's wrong with Blm now? Both have their niches and are capable jobs. Are they omgamazing top notch DDs? No. Should they be? No. A good Thf is in that range of 60-80%ish of a good DD, that's fine IMO. Give up a lil DD for better drops, and in most content as of late (Revamped BCs, Incursion, Aluvion Skirmish) TH does indeed help. Won't even touch the utility a Blm brings, never mind that it's the best DD-ish job capable of DDing with Sam without hampering it's DPS by interrupting SCs. A good Smn is plenty capable of being of value to a party, not every party, and it's not optimal, but being of value is enough in today's content.

Ppl also use SMN in WoE a lot btw.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't think you get my point, campaigns are just bonus, not an in game issue that requires a fix. It is not a big deal if SE didn't respond properly for requests like this.

That's probably because you didn't make that point. The reason people are demanding a response to this thread has nothing to do with campaigns. It has to do with the canned response of "we have no plans..." used in almost every thread that the devs respond to. Which, should be evident because it is in the title of the thread.

As for jobs not being judged based on whether they are shouted for... That actually matters. Until DRG, SMN, THF, PUP, BLM, etc. can solo all delve, AA, Skirmish, etc content it will be an issue. Being awesome at content that no one will do with you is not a helpful change to any job unless it allows you to do the content without other people.

[Xerius]

You mean like the post where you said "it wasn't enough" in reference to Drg's buff, when you had absolutely no idea what/how they were buffed? Posts like that are the one's I hope devs just ignore to be frank.

I was wrong about this and I'll admit that I was wrong about this, but throwing in a cheap jab like this in order to try to discredit me as though everything else I said is without some merit, that's just slimy and doesn't help the discussion at all. If you think the game is in a perfect state of balance you're dead wrong, if you think that the unbalance in the game is okay you're probably one of the people that doesn't have trouble getting into parties. Given how proud of your GEO and Ergon weapon you are I'd wager you're in a pretty dedicated LS and probably don't even have to worry about PUGs.

What's wrong with Thf now? What's wrong with Blm now? Both have their niches and are capable jobs. Are they omgamazing top notch DDs? No. Should they be? No. A good Thf is in that range of 60-80%ish of a good DD, that's fine IMO. Give up a lil DD for better drops, and in most content as of late (Revamped BCs, Incursion, Aluvion Skirmish) TH does indeed help. Won't even touch the utility a Blm brings, never mind that it's the best DD-ish job capable of DDing with Sam without hampering it's DPS by interrupting SCs. A good Smn is plenty capable of being of value to a party, not every party, and it's not optimal, but being of value is enough in today's content.

I don't know where you're getting this idea that BLMs can give SAMs a run for their money. BLM has its niches on content that have many mobs weak to magic, BLM isn't a DDish job it's supposed to be a DD job at least classically and it can't fulfill it's roll properly because of MP/DPS/Enmity issues. It can put out decent dps but I have no idea why you say they shouldn't be top-tier DPS. They should be the prime magic DPS in the game comparable to the best melee DD jobs because that's what they're meant to do.

[Afania]

As for jobs not being judged based on whether they are shouted for... That actually matters. Until DRG, SMN, THF, PUP, BLM, etc. can solo all delve, AA, Skirmish, etc content it will be an issue. Being awesome at content that no one will do with you is not a helpful change to any job unless it allows you to do the content without other people.

I don't think you get my point....my point is that many jobs are actually very useful in current content, just that nobody /shout for them. Most of the time, the reason why nobody /shout for them is not because the job suck, but ppl don't know what can the job do.

Also WoE isn't "content no one would do", there are more ppl doing WoE than delve if you sea all WoE zones v.s delve zones.

[Afania]

I was wrong about this and I'll admit that I was wrong about this, but throwing in a cheap jab like this in order to try to discredit me as though everything else I said is without some merit, that's just slimy and doesn't help the discussion at all. If you think the game is in a perfect state of balance you're dead wrong, if you think that the unbalance in the game is okay you're probably one of the people that doesn't have trouble getting into parties. Given how proud of your GEO and Ergon weapon you are I'd wager you're in a pretty dedicated LS and probably don't even have to worry about PUGs.

I don't think you get the point, nobody is saying that the game is in perfect state of balance, it's just that if you want to present your opinion about job balance, do it based on analyze each job's strength and have a logical discussion about it, don't over state the gap between each jobs just because they're not in /shout, and dismiss other job's utility and unique strength because they're not in /shout.

It is fact that SAM is often in /shout and generally the strongest DD, but other jobs weren't THAT far behind. Just a few months ago we had a discussion about certain jobs suck in FFXI because lolutility, while ppl shit on jobs like BLU because.....lolutility.

I have outparsed at least 95% of PUG 119 SAM in incursion on BLU BECAUSE of utility(yes, self buff haste2 after dispel, aoe erase attack down and slow+ harden shell actually make you parse a lot higher than what spreadsheet says)

Mind you, my BLU isn't zomg amazing, it's mediocre at best. I don't even have 119 af nor many important spell/gear, I also haven't play it for very long time.

What more can I say? Asking BLU to do same lv of dmg as SAM when it can already outparse most SAM AND help the mages with support in incursion? You'll never see BLU in /shout, but I still think it's a solid job for what it does.

Now, on to your 2nd point: "Malithar must have a good LS accepting his GEO because he has an ergon weapon!" You're just making a point that's irrelevant to this discussion by bringing up his ergon weapon and making an assumption about it.

Having an ergon weapon isn't relevant to which LS you have, since it is possible to complete it without a LS. I don't know how you get the conclusion "Malithar must have a good LS because he has an ergon weapon".

Oh and btw, I /shout for GEO for delve/incursion all the time, so does most of other /shout on my server. I don't know how ergon weapon is relevant in this discussion since ppl use it without an ergon weapon.

Secondly, although it is possible that he has a good LS so he can get a pt invite, I don't agree that you should still discuss job balance based on what's in /shout.

There will always be ppl who play with LS and go with most optimal setup, and there will always be ppl who has no LS and couldn't get invite. This game isn't LS-less players only.

If the job balance is based on ls-less players, then SE would buff certain "harder to play but still good" jobs like GEO or BLU to a point that's truly OP to get them in /shout.

So the elite LS would just use those OP jobs and clear the content faster than everyone else, resulting more job balance issue.

/shout pt will always /shout for the easiest to play jobs, instead of the best jobs. "I don't get invite on X job" certainly isn't a legit argument when we talk about job balance because that's balance based on your own experience, not as a whole.

Personally, although I know certain job isn't as bad as what others said, I don't /shout for them as well. I know if I /shout for a BLU or COR in incursion I'm gonna get someone wearing mage gears and parse low. That doesn't mean the job is bad though.

[Xerius]

Of course it's relevant to base it on what's in shouts and here's why, almost everyone participates in PUG groups and many people rely solely on them however fewer people are in endgame LSs that allow them to come any job that they want. So, shouts would be a better indication of the average players experience.

And I'm not criticizing PUG groups for who they choose because you're completely right they're going to shout for jobs that make it easiest for the whole group.

As for my point about having a Ergon weapon means you have a good LS. I'm not saying he does in fact have a good LS that helped I know for a fact that he worked really hard to get his HP Bayld, we're on the same server I've personally sold him some of those HP Bayld. I've even been to Woh Gate JP party with him. But I am saying that people that are as we'll geared as his GEO is don't get there with PUGs at least not very often. You keep saying that we can't give our opinion because it's from personal experience and the you list off a bunch of personal events, like how your BLU can out parse SAMs or your personal experiences with setting up PUGs or go off on tangents. You say we can't base job balance on what people are shouting for and then start talking about how some people play in LSs.

You say we can't base it on what most players do (PUGs) because not all players do it that way (Elite LSs) and I submit the exact opposite, the game shouldn't be based on the few but should be based on the average experience.