"THe Development Team Does Not Currently Have Plans Too..."

[Afania]

That's fair enough and I respect that. Most of the comments in these mythic threads insist that the people asking for change are being selfish and refuse to admit that their motivation is just as selfish if not more.

I would want something that nobody else has, however, this really isn't the ONLY reason why I'm against mythic requirement nerf. There's a difference between wanting something exclusive and post opinions about the game design direction.

For example: I "want" my BLU to outparse every SAM on the server, but I wouldn't pop on the forum and ask SE to boost BLU's output by 200%, because I know it'd be broken. It's a bad design and I wouldn't make such suggestion, even if my want it that way.

MMORPG is about "not every player can obtain the same item", if a player wants better item he/she must spend longer time in the game. Do you think casual players can obtain the highest raid gear in other titles? No. My argument to support longer mythic is purely based on the fact that MMO've been working like that for decades. Why change that when it's already an established formula proven to work in the past on every other title?

It's fact that it's human nature that they want something exclusive, and MMO industry is built entirely based on that fact. There are items that needs LONG TIME to obtain to keep players around in sub based MMO, there are items that costs real money to obtain in F2P titles. By asking items that's no longer exclusive, you're killing the game itself.

Even if I want something that nobody else has, it usually isn't the only reason for me to make comment about the game design direction. Just because you like to make comment about the game direction based on your personal need, doesn't mean everyone else is the same as you.

You kept acting as if my sole motivation is to keep my items exclusive and ignored every other points I've made, that's annoying and cheap.

Even if I don't have a mythic, I'm still against mythic requirement nerf since I've been against the nerf before I own one, just like how I'm against afterglow/Dring requirement nerf without owning one. Not agreeing with my opinion is one thing, which is fine as everyone has different opinions. Twist other's motive into something else to win the argument is another.

Anyways, I'm done with arguing about my motivation. If you insist to believe I'm posting because I want items nobody else has, then so be it. Typing anymore argument about my motivation but not the actual points is just wasting my time and internet resource.

[FrankReynolds]

Your definition of "frequently" is pretty out of the norm there. They were outclassed for a short time twice, once when Empys were a thing and had magian trials taking them further than relics or mythics, and again at the launch of SoE.

They were outclassed before empy's came out by regular abyssea NM drops. It was quite a while before they became relevant again and when they did, the requirements to get them there weren't exactly a walk in the park. People had to complain for a long hard time to get them updated to where they are. And they will inevitably go through the same process every time they update the iLevel equipment in the future. Quite "Frequently" in relation to the amount of time they take to obtain.

"Many cases" as in DD mythics. And besides, they actually don't have more damage, they have less. The strength of a DD mythic comes from it's JA enhance and it's AM3, nothing else. If you don't or can't maintain AM3, DD wise you will likely get more from some other 119 weapon. The only DD mythic that's just flat out better than anything else is Blm's, as it's nuking stats are far and above better than anything else available. Smns? Well augged Pet: MAB staff wins on magical BPs. I haven't kept up to date to know if the loss of the 2 levels is worth the switch though. All others are riding on their JA or other benefit, Whm, Pld, Brd, etc.

Case and point. Nothing in the game require a well geared BLM or SMN. I've spent a week gearing my BLM since abbysea and it is up to par to beat anything that people would want a BLM for, which is not a lot.

Do you keep up with what they say? Here, lemme help.

I said that they changed their minds and would be updating them in the exact line that you quoted.

That's just the most recent quote. Matsui also said himself (or Camate in a translation) back when they were first revamped that going forward, when the ilvl cap increases, so will RMEs. There might be another short period where they can't be upgraded, or perhaps you do need the new highest tier content cleared, but honestly, so what?

Which is why I said that they will frequently be surpassed by other gear. Hence not permanently the best.

The past several pages have been you grasping at straws trying to justify why mythic's requirements should be lessened. You've danced around "they're not worth it" all the way to "the shouldn't take so long." Yet plenty before you, and plenty after you, have, and will, complete them. Either get on board the train for whatever mythic you want, or stop your QQing and focus on other content more suited to your tastes. As you (I think it was you? I'm not bothering to check) said, changing the requirements would be an easy task. The issue is, getting them already IS an easy task, if you're motivated to do so. And everyone of detlef's points stands, if you want it bad enough, get it.

Yes, mythics are so undeniably easy and fun to make that less than ten thousand have been made by the millions of characters that have played this game over the last 8 years since their invention.

[WoW]

Because if you were doing it just for the reward, you would do delve. If you were doing it for the content you would do... basically anything that seemed fun. You are doing it for exclusivity. You want the item to remain exclusive. Challenging enough that you can do it, but not so much that the average joe can do it. You want to have something just for you and not for everyone else. Your motives are selfish and have nothing to do with the longevity of the game or keeping old players or any of the other justifications you've attempted.



...But we're not arguing about taking away the reward. We're arguing about accessibility. No one has suggested removing mythics from the game in this thread.



If you were just doing it for the reward, you wouldn't care if I worked harder than you to get it or not. You have other thinly veiled motives for your arguments.



A reward that isn't worth the effort is almost exactly the same as no reward at all. Doing 5% more damage is great and all, but working for months and months to do 5% more damage in a fight that you are almost certain to win without it is a waste of time for most people. It's like buying a ferrari to go to the grocery store. There are far better ways to spend your time.



Game design fundamental 101: If the game sucks, nobody cares about the reward. If your flawed view of this rule were even remotely true, then final fantasy would have a billion customers throwing money at the devs to make the mythic quests even harder.



Given the fact that there are less than ten thousand mythics and more than 100,000 players, you are completely wrong.



Current mythics = people just don't do them and quit even sooner.



No one wants to do the content because it isn't worth the trouble and or they don't have time = population declines faster



Horrible example. I'm not even going to explain why.



When a reward is obviously unobtainable, most people don't even try.

Same thing happens here. People who only have a couple hours a day to play could surely build a mythic eventually, but their entire game time would consist of doing something that sucks and the rest of their gear, quests, friends etc. would be completely ignored. It isn't because they suck, or they don't work hard enough, it's because the quest sucks and they have to choose between that and actually playing the fun part of the game. It's fine if you want to say "well they should sacrifice if they want the best", but there's a point where the sacrifice is not worth it and this is far past that point.



And here you prove my point. You don't want them to add more goals to keep people from getting bored and quitting. You want them to keep this goal unobtainable for the masses. Like I said, there's no reason why they can't keep adding content and still do double ichor campaigns. If you really wanted goals and achievements, you'd be asking for more goals and achievements. Not trying to keep the same old crap.



The amount of time that these quests require is not "Fast" even at half the length and the amount of solo play that it requires is a huge detriment to the social aspect to the game for anyone doing them.



So what if I do? I have nothing to prove to you. My boss knows I'm a hard worker and they pay me really well for it as evidence. I don't care at all if the gaming community approves of my work ethics. This is a game. I do this for fun. I don't do it to impress you or anyone else. If I don't thinkk something is fun, I'm not gonna puff out my chest and try to prove to people I can do it. I'll save that for people that pay me.



Jack was (not surprisingly) already taken. Most common names were.



Just because something is worth having doesn't mean it has to be worth the effort. I would love to have a 2014 porsche. I even have the money to buy one. It's a dumb investment. I drive like 50 miles a month. That doesn't mean Porsches aren't worth having. They're great. They're just not worth the effort and sacrifice. I could drive a hyundai and spend the money someplace more useful like another rental property.

Same thing here. It would be great to out parse all the other samurai by 10%. No reason to do it. Shaving 45 seconds off a delve run means nothing. The content doesn't require that weapon or even significantly benefit from it. Burtang is slightly more useful, but again not necessary.

It's a catch 22. The weapons aren't worth this amount of time if they aren't significantly better than they are right now and / or they make it possible to beat something you can't easily beat without them. If they were that much better, it would be completely unfair to the other 90% of the player base who can't obtain one. There's simply no room in the game for crap like this. It's lazy development and that's it.

I mean maybe you only play one job, hate very other job and are just out of stuff to do for that job. But then you should be asking for more content. Not trying to keep other people from getting on your level.

As it pertains to the original question; not sure SE cares; ppl are paying, hence it is a non-issue. They do not have to implement our suggestions, nor hear them out. As long as ppl are paying..........I mean......wouldn't most ppl do the same? Why go out of their way and diverge from the original "plans" to hear out the customer when they appear satisfied with the product? Money speaks louder than words. If you are paying, then you are happy (in their eyes perhaps). ppl do not have to play video games (Unless it is your job).

[FrankReynolds]

After pages and pages of argument about game design fundamentals, I still don't understand why you insist that playing a video game and following video game's "game designer design a goal, player go after that goal" is equal to "selfish". There are just zero connection between them.

By your logic, Nintendo made a game called Mario, 90% of my friends/family can't beat Mario, then they can ask Nintendo to nerf the difficulty of Mario. If someone that's against the idea of Mario difficulty nerf then he/she is "selfish"?

Yes. You are that kid who refused to show his friends how to get 99 lives by simply jumping on the same turtle a hundred times because you wanted to be the only one who could beat it. Selfish.

If you think the game is too difficult/tedious w/e to a point that you can't beat or obtain and you'd rather not do, just play another game or in FFXI's case, aim for another goal. Why are you asking the game difficulty to be nerfed so some ppl that enjoyed it no longer get to enjoy it?

I didn't ask for them to change the content at all. Just the amount of time that you are required to do it. You are still free to do it as much as you want. Nothing is being taken from you but foolish pride.

I think you're just as "selfish" to ask for a difficulty nerf. Only Mrkillface can change the game to what he like and still not "selfish", but I can't present my opinion about a better game because I'm "selfish"?

My selfishness doesn't exclude others from enjoying this aspect of the game. In fact it allows more people to enjoy it.

Technically, yes. Changing the amount of effort required for an item is basically changing the nature of the reward. Obtaining a delve2 weapon isn't nearly as satisfying as obtaining a RME, and this isn't my opinion only. Most players in this game has the same opinion about RME.

Most players meaning you.

Why'd SE ban RMT and fish bot? Why would you care if other player get gil/items faster than you with less work? Why would you want to work harder for less?

In MMO, creating a fair environment for every player does matter.

Who said I was upset about other players getting things faster than me? I have three characters that can happily farm mythics. There aren't many people who could get one faster even if they wanted to. That's not the point. Just because I can afford something doesn't mean it isn't overpriced.

Not sure why you suddenly want to use billion customer as an example to argue against current Mythic. By your logic if SE make Mythic obtainable in 1 day FF11 would have billion customers too.

Maybe. Like I sadi, I've yet to see anyone asking them to make mythics harder. Only people asking to make them easier. Why don't you ask them to make them take 6 years to build? Because that's too long for YOU? I'm pretty sure that whatever works for you is perfect and if it doesn't work for 90% of the other people, well that's just too bad. Am I right?

You said you have a LS full of mythic owners, then proceed to say "most ppl don't even try"? Ok

I also know a bunch of asian female basketball players. That does not mean that most basket ball players are asian women. I know a bunch of rappers. Most people are not rappers. I know a bunch of doctors. Most people are not doctors. Do you understand yet? Or should I give more examples?

You not so cleverly ignored the part where I also know a crap load of people who are not Mythic owners and cannot or have no intention of ever being so based mostly on the requirements of doing so.

Mrkillface doesn't even try*, fixed for you.

Well I already said that, so now you're just repeating stuff. On the other hand, links that you provided prove that I am part of the large majority that chooses not to so I'm not sure how you think this helps your argument. I mean all you're really saying is that even someone like myself who can do it chooses not to because it's a poorly designed content in regards to time / effort / reward.

I did ask for more content, but it's a proven fact that SE isn't going to create that much content. Also I'm not the only one that's only interested in 1~2 mythics. There are other ppl that's not interested in creating 20 mythics, and instead they're looking for some sense of accomplishment after obtaining one. By making Mythics faster to obtain there are no sense of accomplishment for them after they're done.

So it's fine because you have enough time to create one and you don't want the rest.

Since you view Mythic as a complete waste of time, I don't think you'd understand what Mythic meant to be for a lot of ppl anyways.

According to SE, they were supposed to be easier to obtain than relics... they were supposed to be fun... they were supposed to be a lot of things.

IMO, mythic as obtainable as delve2 weapon just isn't acceptable,

Oh, did you think we wre asking for them to be as easy as delve? You're posting in the wrong thread. People here are just asking for 3 day double ichor campaigns and / or buying some with sparks. No one suggested anything even remotely near delve.

and it has nothing to do with myself being selfish/wanting exclusive item or not. Even if I don't have one I'd still say the same. There are plenty of items I do not have, such as Dring. I've never ask for difficulty nerf just so that I can get it. There are plenty of stuff I choose not to get it because I think it suck, such as new skirmish weapon augment, even then I only pointed out the flaws in the design but I still didn't ask for a difficulty nerf.

So when I choose not to do it, I am lazy but when you choose not to do something...

Keep playing "you're selfish" card all you want, I'm going to counter with the same card.....you're selfish if you ask for a difficulty nerf for any item/accomplishment.

Maybe I am. Oh well. My selfish argument is still better than yours.

Btw, not sure why are you playing rl card here. I don't have a damn about how you do irl nor asking you to prove anything to me, I'm explaining the game design fundamentals to you and apparently you failed to understand repeatly.

I'm not sure why you think you are an authority on game design fundamentals, or why you think that you should be telling other people how they work. You're just another person on the internet. You have no more insight or influence on the subject than any other random person with a keyboard.

[Afania]

Repeating the same thing and twist Afania's argument into something else again

No new argument to support faster mythics besides your personal taste? K. How disappointing, I thought at least you can comprehend other's post.

And holy crap at twisting my words again, when'd I said I want mythic takes 6 years to build? I said 4~6 MONTHS.And no I didn't ask for 6 years because I have issue with how long it takes, if I want a 6 years goal I can build afterglow, I don't need to change mythics for it. Again you're twisting my motivation into something else.

I'm not an authority at game design, but at least I presented an idea about why X design is better, unlike you, the only argument you use was "you're selfish" after 5 pages. Which is irrelevant to game design.

[FrankReynolds]

No new argument to support faster mythics besides your personal taste? K. How disappointing, I thought at least you can comprehend other's post.

I don't need a new argument. My first one was fine. You haven't proven it wrong, why would I change it?

And holy crap at twisting my words again, when'd I said I want mythic takes 6 years to build? I said 4~6 MONTHS.And no I didn't ask for 6 years because I have issue with how long it takes, if I want a 6 years goal I can build afterglow, I don't need to change mythics for it. Again you're twisting my motivation into something else.

I never said you wanted a 6 year mythic. I think there is some sort of communication error here.

I'm not an authority at game design, but at least I presented an idea about why X design is better, unlike you, the only argument you use was "you're selfish" after 5 pages. Which is irrelevant to game design.

Putting rewards that 100% of your customers want in content that only 10% of your customers are entertained by enough and / or have time to actually do is pretty bad design. The reason is incredibly obvious. I agree. It really shouldn't take 5 pages to figure it out.

[Camiie]

This may be a strange point of view coming from an average player, but I think the game would have been better served had Relics, Empyreans, and Mythics been made MORE difficult to the point that they truly would be a rarity. That way content would never have been developed with their existence in mind, and people wouldn't feel they absolutely had to have one just to play certain jobs. Sure there would be some linkshells and groups that still demanded them, but they'd no longer be the norm. But, like SE, I could be vastly underestimating the jerkass nature and unrealistic expectations of the community at large.

[Afania]

I don't need a new argument. My first one was fine. You haven't proven it wrong, why would I change it?

Except you don't HAVE an argument, that's why you need a new one. You're asking for a change, a change(no exclusive items) that's different direction from other MMO on the market, thus you should tell us why a change can increase the profit of this game.

For 5 pages your only argument was twisting my motivation into something else and your personal subjective opinion about what makes the game fun.

If you want to argue that easy mythic would result a increase sub number in a short amount of time, maybe I'd agree with you. WoW is correct that some ppl may sub a bit longer just to build one.

What about after he's done in 1 month? What about after 3 years? When 50% of the players own 10 mythics, what is THEIR motivation to keep playing?

Further more, that means any future content added into the game would not offer enough reward for ppl to do it.

If 10% of the players own mythic, 90% of the players would still want to do new content for a good weapon. Those 10% mythic owners may also do new content for jobs they don't have mythic.

If 50% of the players own 20 mythics, when next tier of content is out, only 50% of ppl would do the new content, rest of the playerbase would just sit in town complaining about how boring this game is because gears from the new content don't beat their mythic........

And they quit.

If you look at this from a bigger picture, not how sub goes after 3 months, but how sub goes after 3+ years, it'd hurt the game in the long run.

You can keep twisting my motivation over and over again, but it's not an argument that can make the game better, it only make you feel like winning an internet argument.

Putting rewards that 100% of your customers want in content that only 10% of your customers are entertained by enough and / or have time to actually do is pretty bad design. The reason is incredibly obvious. I agree. It really shouldn't take 5 pages to figure it out.

Except that's not how MMO works. MMO is about having exclusive items for different tiers of players, every other titles have been doing that for past 15 years...you aren't getting the best items in other MMO without beating the highest tier raid as well. It shouldn't take 5 pages nor a masters in game design to know that following the winning formula established in the industry is the best direction.

[Lithera]

Man, I think the poor OP should change the title of this thread to this was a complaint about Dev reply but now is yet another thread about mythics. /comfort to the OP. Could someone please lock this thing?

[Balloon]

Unfortunately, there isn't much more to say about the OPs topic. We've gotten a couple more 'I checked; there's no plans.' Some attempts at some more indepth answers. There's not anything to say about it, and if it weren't in this thread it'd just be in another.