Correct way to use Relic Horn + Empy horn?

[ZoMBie343]

Hello!
What is the correct way to swap instruments with bard if you have relic horn AND empy horn?


Does this change your song duration gear or fast cast gear or songing casting time -% gear?


Thank you.

[Kensagaku]

Relic and Empy horn...? Oh. You mean harp.

Now, the correct way to do it is this: you're going to want to sing your songs first with Daur (or Terpander, depending). This will enable extra song slots, up to four total if you have a Daur99. This grants a 30% Duration bonus to songs. We'll just assume March / March / Minuet / Minuet for the sake of examples.

Now, let's look at the potency. Assuming you just sang all four songs in your Daur99 and proper AF gear, not including duration+, you have the following values:
Advancing March (+1 total): 6.3% Haste + 1.6% Haste (Value of a March +1 total bonus) = 7.9% Haste
Victory March (+1 total): 9.4% Haste + 1.6% Haste (Value of a March +1 total bonus) = 11.0% Haste
Valor Minuet V (+1 total): 62 + 1 (Value of a Minuet +1 total bonus) = 63 Total Attack
Valor Minuet IV (+1 total): 56 + 1 (Value of a Minuet +1 total bonus) = 57 Total Attack
Final Bonuses: 18.9% Haste and 120 Attack. All songs last ~171 seconds (132 (base with song+ bonuses) x 1.3 (Daur bonus)).

Switching over to your Gjallarhorn99, which gives all songs +4, we see the following values instead:
Advancing March (+5 total): 6.3% Haste + 7.8% Haste (Value of a March +5 total bonus) = 14.1% Haste
Victory March (+5 total): 9.4% Haste + 7.8% Haste (Value of a March +5 total bonus) = 17.2% Haste
Valor Minuet V (+5 total): 62 + 17 (Value of a Minuet +5 total bonus) = 79 Total Attack
Valor Minuet IV (+5 total): 56 + 17 (Value of a Minuet +5 total bonus) = 73 Total Attack
Final Bonuses: 31.3% Haste and 152 Attack. All songs last 180 seconds, as song+ also increases duration.

You can see the best way to cast songs, obviously, is using your relic horn and normal duration gear for the end cast. However, the proper way to do so and get four songs can be done two ways. I'm sure there are more efficient means, but these are just two that I know of:

1. Start by casting two songs in your Gjallarhorn. Since you don't need to activate extra slots, get them at full potency right away. Switch to your Daur for the next two songs to get them up, and then re-sing them with your Gjallarhorn; once the slots are up, as long as they have an active song in them, you can continue to overwrite. This means that as long as you re-sing buffs before they start to wear, you don't have to switch back to your Daur to refresh songs. Make sure all final song casts are in your Gjallarhorn!

2. Start by casting four dummy buffs, with at least the last two being in your Daur. Some find it easier to just do all four for macroing's sake, that's up to you. Dummy buffs are cast with just your harp, and since they have no song+ bonuses to duration (most people use things like pastoral, abude, etc) they will always be overwritten first when you cast in your ghorn, which gives a +4 bonus to any song and causes it to overwrite the low-duration ones. This way, you put up four dummy songs to activate your slots, and then you cast the actual potency songs in your ghorn in order to get them at full duration and potency. Make sure you refresh them before they wear off!


As for the last question, changing gear; if you're using method #1, you're going to want to focus on recast for your Daur songs so that you can cast them again with your ghorn ASAP to avoid making people wait. Ghorn should be in normal potency/duration gear. If you're using method #2, just cast fast to get those dummy buffs up, and then cast in your potency/duration gear for Ghorn songs. I'm sure I don't need to tell you this since you have both relic and empy, but make sure you start in fast cast/song casting time down gear, and then switch to whatever set you're using for potency or recast.

Hope this advice helps! (I expect my ls leader to chime in though since he does post on the forums, mister RME bard, and he'll likely provide even better advice)

[ZoMBie343]

Wow. Thank you! this is so informative!

I can't wait to read what your LS leader has to say!

Edit: What goes into choosing dummy songs?

Edit #2: What does the anatomy of a single cast look like using method #2? I assume:

1.) Do I equip song duration or song-casting time gear before casting song?
2.) Cast Song.
3.) Equip mid-cast gear? (Which is duration, I assume?)
4.) Anything else?
5.) Song is cast.

Thank you again!

[Karbuncle]

Dummy songs are there simply to be placeholders until you cast the actual songs, any 3-4 songs will do... personally I sing carol's. You can use the Harp to put up 4 songs, any 4 dummy songs, then switch to your +2/3/4 instrument and sing them out and still be able to apply 4 songs so long as the 4 dummy songs are on you and your party.

For pre-cast, you want Casting time- or Fast cast, then just switch to post-cast (Song Duration, Skill+, so forth). Not much to it than that.

[Kensagaku]

Reply#1:
Dummy songs can be anything really; they just need to have no song+ on them. The reason for this is that songs will always overwrite songs with the lowest duration remaining. Casting a song without any song+ bonuses means that it gets no duration bonuses either, so this way you'll sing four "dummy" songs to get your slots active, and then be able to overwrite them with potency/duration-boosted songs that will always overwrite the dummy songs first.

Reply #2:
It would go something like this:

Step 1: Dummy Songs
-Cast in FC/Song Casting Time gear/Daur
-End in said gear. No potency/duration bonuses.

Step 2: Normal Songs
-Start in FC/Song Casting Time Gear/Ghorn
-Start casting song
-Switch to potency gear (namely, duration+; AF3+2 body, Marduk+1 legs, Brioso/+1 feet, Aoidos Matinee). Include extra pieces of AF3+2 (head/hands) for small set bonuses that give a bit of extra stats. Alternatively, if for some reason you're doing Paeon or something, equip appropriate song+ bonus gear if it is available.
-Cast song
-Idle Gear

Now, with our new equipment sets that SE is giving us, we can actually do that all in one macro per song; make a "fast cast" set and a "duration" set. Then your macro would be something like:

>> /ma "Song Name" <stpt> (I use <stpt> in case for some reason I need to pianissimo; I can just hit enter immediately for AoE songs)
>> /equipset # (FC Set) <wait> (I don't know if this is just 1 for first set or you can go by names or what; assume it's by number, 1, 2 etc)
>> /equipset # (Potency Set)

That would actually switch you to both of them in one button press. Additionally, you can probably add a line for your idle set if you want to use another set on that, and you know the delay on your song's casting.

[Sandmaste]

Its nice to see the numbers for how the horn buffs the songs. I can certainly see how the horn really adds a special amount of haste, no hasteII needed just a haste to cap magic haste, or turn it around, usinga daur you can cap haste with 2 marches and a haste II.

From a non-bard perspective looking at those numbers, I would rather have a 3-4song bard over a horn bard or a horn+3song bard would work fine, if you had a RDM in the party you would only need to cast one haste song on you horn as the RDM can cover the rest of the haste with haste II leaving 2 songs left if using 3songs for minuets or a madrigal/prelude.

Now the problem I have, from looking at those numbers is the horn does amazing things to marches but the additions to minuets are kinda 'meh'. The problem anyway, is that at 75 when DD's had 350-450att , and additional ~100att was a major difference, at ilevel117/119 now we have ~1000 attack an additional ~100att is not nearly as special, I get an 150 additional att just from eating food for example. What is even more sad, is that the +4 horn only gives an additional 34att over a standard +1 Bard. Although every last bit of attack is useful having that additional 34 att to a 119DD would just be like adding another gear piece.

I'm not trying to sound like a prick, a lot of very informative info in this thread it was just seeing those numbers having a Daur and 3-4 songs, (especially if you get to 4songs) is going to be more important than the horn will ever be and that is simply due to the cap on magical haste and the horn not doing enough to minuets.

Things can always change however. Oh, and having both is something very few Bards have but it must be a great goal to have accomplished to congrats to OP. I'd love to level bard but with Bard and Paladin a Relic or Emph seems to be a required piece of gear for the jobs to be used.

[VoiceMemo]

>> /ma "Song Name" <stpt> (I use <stpt> in case for some reason I need to pianissimo; I can just hit enter immediately for AoE songs)
>> /equipset # (FC Set) <wait> (I don't know if this is just 1 for first set or you can go by names or what; assume it's by number, 1, 2 etc)
>> /equipset # (Potency Set)

Did something change? I thought order had to be Fast cast before song casting to get the benefit of faster song casting.

If you do use
1) Fast cast
2) Song
3) Duration

It needs a wait somewhere in there or the duration gear errors out equiping
IE
1) Fast cast
2) Song
3) Duration gear

Also my post about the new gear swaps being too slow http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...186#post520186

But I agree with the other posters about sing 2 songs with Gjallarhorn first at maximum duration gear, then 1-2 songs with Daurdabla without the duration gear. Then new 1-2 songs with maximum duration gear.

Then if never allowing songs to fall sing all with Gjallarhorn and maximum duration gear.

[MilkMansKid]

Pretty sure he/she just typed on the wrong line cause if you look up a few lines he list it correctly.

Step 2: Normal Songs
-Start in FC/Song Casting Time Gear/Ghorn
-Start casting song
-Switch to potency gear

[Kensagaku]

Yeah, my bad. xD; my cursor jumps at times and I don't even notice it. It's my laptop.

[detlef]

You're just the worst Ken.