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  1. #1
    Player Nightfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    49
    Character
    Nightfox
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    RUN Lv 99

    The Life of a Rune Fencer

    I've been playing RUN since a couple weeks past the release of Seeker's of Adoulin. A job that felt as if it had no hope has improved dramatically over the year. Though there is still very minimal use for RUN in a party setting, I still try to find more uses. Content that I've found the most satisfying for RUN are reives, including wildkeepers. With good gear and merits they can tank quite well, until hate caps of course, as with any tanking job. I've tried to bring my RUN to delve or High Tier Battlefields with little success on group invites to try it out. I hope to try it out with a low man linkshell party in the future. My gear is not the best, but it is still high enough to be able to experiment.

    My main set is:

    Aettir
    Tzacab Grip
    Honed tathlum
    Futhark bandeau +1
    Twilight torque
    Ethereal earring
    Spellbreaker earring
    Runeist coat +1
    Runeist mitons +1
    Dark ring (physical damage -4%, magical damage -4%)
    Dark ring (physical damage -4%, magical damage -4%)
    Evasionist's cape
    Flume belt
    Runeist trousers +1
    Futhark boots +1

    There is room for improvement obviously, but that is for another topic. Having tanked for a while, there is still a plethora of problems i face. This includes hate, damage, and physical survivability. RUN's magical defense capabilities are very impressive, i have no problems with it as it should be. Against anything that deals heavy physical damage and/or high level, it is very weak. I have capped skills in everything for RUN and merits in greatsword, evasion, parrying, STR, DEX, AGI, Rune Enchantment/Vallation effect 5/5, Inspiration 5/5, battuta 4/5, and Rayke 1/5. For job points so far I only have Rune Effects 2/10 and elemental sforzo effect 1/10. I'm still improving my RUN quite a bit but i feel there needs to be major upgrades aside from just gear and merits still.

    - Hate system still needs to be revamped quite a bit

    As with each tank job in the game, this is the leading factor in tanking problems. There have been posts that adjustments will be made, so until then i can only wait.

    - "Battuta" is an amazing job ability, lower recast or higher duration is critical.

    This ability changes things dramatically, such as when hit by wildkeeper reive weakness abilities or low on HP. I've been saved countless times by it, at least until it wears off.

    - More higher tiers of the job trait "Inquartata".

    Parrying needs to be more heavily enphasized on RUN, it is crucial to survivability on anything physical.

    - New Effusions

    More runic abilities to deal magical damage, gain/keep hate, and/or aid in dehibilitating enemies would be helpful.

    - New Wards

    More runic abilities to ward physical damage, gain/keep hate, increase parrying, and/or defend against high damage abilities would be helpful.

    - New Abilities geared towards keeping hate and increasing parrying and/or evasion.

    Parrying and evasion are the keys to tanking for rune, it would be helpful having abilities to aid in this. An ability with a 5m recast and 2hr duration which assists in increased job performance would be nice, such as velocity shot for ranger, but increasing in parrying and evasion.

    - New ability or trait for increasing physical resistance.

    Physical survivability is still the fall of any RUN, even small increases to physical defending capabilities can help.

    - New spells

    Spells to defend against physical damage, shave damage off light and dark based spells, and/or aid in holding hate on enemies would be helpful.


    And finally....

    - Allow "Valiance" to double duration on surrounding party members and have dramatically increased range.

    I feel very strongly about this. Having this ability reach party members including mages on the back lines can increase RUN's favorability in parties. To be able to ward off heavy magical damage and grant fast cast if merited would be very helpful to everyone in the party.

    I would like to see RUN used more in current content and hope this thread will be at least read by the developers in time to consider adjustments for the september update, thanks for your time.


    - Nightfox
    (3)
    Last edited by Nightfox; 08-12-2014 at 11:23 AM.

  2. #2
    Player FrankReynolds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,592
    Character
    Mrkillface
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfox View Post

    - New Abilities geared towards keeping hate and increasing parrying and/or evasion.

    Parrying and evasion are the keys to tanking for rune, it would be helpful having abilities to aid in this. An ability with a 5m recast and 2hr duration which assists in increased job performance would be nice, such as velocity shot for ranger, but increasing in parrying and evasion.
    The ergon weapon should have had an incredible parry rate like PLD shields have for block / mdt.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player Einalem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    49
    Character
    Einalem
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    I agree that Battuta is strong, when up.
    As far as up-time versus recast, the only part I find odd is 1:30 Duration, where things like Swordplay are 2 Mintues.
    I wouldn't mind a middle ground, though.
    Halve the Parry proc rate added by Battuta and add it as a baseline to Inquartata or in a separate trait if need be.
    That would give more baseline Parry survivability and not diminish the usefulness of Battuta.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Community Rep Grekumah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    349
    Speaking about parry, we do not have any plans to make adjustments to Battuta or Inquartata. We have to be very careful when making adjustments to improve the activation rate of parry since it nullifies physical damage and as such we’d like players to carefully choose when to use Battuta.

    While we do not have any plans to increase the effect duration of Valiance, we do plan on increasing the range of the effect and we are looking to address this in the September version update.
    (1)
    Colby "Grekumah" Casaccia - Community Team

  5. #5
    Player FrankReynolds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,592
    Character
    Mrkillface
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Grekumah View Post
    Speaking about parry, we do not have any plans to make adjustments to Battuta or Inquartata. We have to be very careful when making adjustments to improve the activation rate of parry since it nullifies physical damage and as such we’d like players to carefully choose when to use Battuta.
    It's not really a choice. You either need it or you don't. When you need it, you need it all the time.
    (5)

  6. #6
    Player Einalem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    49
    Character
    Einalem
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    Grekumah: thank you for the input.

    I'm sure as a community rep, you've had to deal with players and their weird expectations that might not mesh with game reality.
    This is the source of everyone's discontent: Aegis.
    Paladins who have it, love it.
    Paladin's who don't have it complain they need it to be competitive.
    Rune Fencers feel they can't compete with it.
    The worst part is, it's equipment.
    It's not a Job Ability, Food Effect, or Spell, so it isn't subject to various Dispelling effects or recast timers; As long as it's equipped, it's a constant, not a variable.

    Rune Fencers have two defensive checks: Evasion (B+) and Parry (A+)
    Paladins have three defensive checks: Evasion (C), Parry (C), Block (A+)

    Just off this, I would expect Rune Fencer to take 0 Damage from attacks more frequently than Paladin unless you are in a situation where Evasion is close to it's floor for both jobs (ie, end game content)

    If a Rune Fencer and a Paladin are going to be hit by 4 attacks that deal 1000 damage each, and Rune Fencer has a 25% Parry chance normally, Versus a Paladin who we will assume doesn't Parry, but has an Aegis at a 50% block rate for 75% less damage (if I'm reading this link right)

    Rune Fencer: 1000, 1000, 1000, 0000 = 3000
    Paladin: 1000, 0250, 1000, 0250 = 2500

    This isn't including any difference in Physical Damage taken on the gear, or the actual Defense Value that these jobs can equip.

    If Rune Fencer has anything other than Battuta for increasing the Parry Cap above 25% that would affect this calculation, great! Get that information out there! Combat player misconceptions!

    The main concern of Rune Fencers is physical survivability.
    Let's suggest some out of the box things as well.
    If you don't want to increase the Parry Hard Cap, consider a Parry Soft Cap; a percentage of ranges where Parry doesn't fully activate to negate all damage, but can shave off a chunk of it.
    A Trait like this could give Rune Fencer some passive survivability complementing it's tanking methods without breaking Parry.

    Who knows, though. Maybe having some Epeolatries out in the wild will correct the imbalance, but we aren't quite there yet.
    (3)
    Last edited by Einalem; 08-15-2014 at 07:16 AM. Reason: Gear

  7. #7
    Player Zhronne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    1,050
    Character
    Sechs
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Instead of increasing Valiance range, how about making Inspiration undispellable, just like Valiance/Vallation? At the same conditions (i.e. when used with 3 runes up)
    (1)
    And the autumn of life has finally come
    with the promise of winter thaw.

  8. #8
    Player Martel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    249
    Character
    Martel
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Einalem View Post
    but has an Aegis at a 50% block rate for 75% less damage
    Except that's base block rate, not actual block rate. And that page is wrong anyway, since Aegis has 5% higher base block rate than a size 3 shield, while the page claims they're the same. Also, while it is technically true that Aegis itself has -75% dmg reduction on block, a PLD using Aegis will get -81% due to shield defense bonus. So -81% would be the value you need to use in any calculations.

    But anyway. Aegis is NOT going to be getting a 50% block rate on Anything decent level.

    Let's see... as an example of Aegis vs high level mobs, my last test on lvl 126 mobs yielded a 11.91% block rate.(The test sample was 4,172 total hits, btw.) That's a total damage reduction value of -9.6%.(for comparison, Ochain against the same mobs yielded -46.3% total damage reduction.)


    To put it simply, Aegis' physical defenses suck against current high level content. The lack of ilvl updates hurt it quite badly compared to modern shields considering the extremely high lvl mobs can be now. However, It maintains usefulness via it's MDT II. But while being near immune to magic, physical vulnerability is greatly increased compared to other shields.

    You can make arguments for reprisal and palisade helping with Aegis' physical lack, but those, and the buffs needed to maintain reprisal are subject to the same dispelling issue RUN has with it's other buffs.

    Hmmm... I'm getting Deja Vu... I could swear I've done a Aegis PLD vs RUN defenses comparison on here somewhere already.. Well, I don't really feel like looking for it. And in any case, the main point was just to correct inaccurate information, not to go all PLD vs RUN.

    Quote Originally Posted by Einalem View Post
    If Rune Fencer has anything other than Battuta for increasing the Parry Cap above 25% that would affect this calculation, great! Get that information out there! Combat player misconceptions!
    Well, how about Inquartata? Assuming there even is a parry cap, and I tend to doubt these things till I see it proven, Inquartata certainly bypasses it. I have data with RUN at higher than 25% parry rates.

    Although, I doubt RUN is going to hit significant parry rates on high end content. Stuff is just too high level.
    (3)

  9. #9
    Player Einalem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    49
    Character
    Einalem
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    I love data updates like this!
    If you can find that other thread a link would be great, sir!
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player Nightfox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    49
    Character
    Nightfox
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    RUN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Grekumah View Post
    Speaking about parry, we do not have any plans to make adjustments to Battuta or Inquartata. We have to be very careful when making adjustments to improve the activation rate of parry since it nullifies physical damage and as such we’d like players to carefully choose when to use Battuta.

    While we do not have any plans to increase the effect duration of Valiance, we do plan on increasing the range of the effect and we are looking to address this in the September version update.
    Thanks for the response, Grekumah. I understand that parry cannot be increased to high to prevent RUN from becoming very powerful. And i am excited to hear that valiance range will be increased, hopefully dramatically. Not to sound pushy or impatient, but if you could let the dev team know to make more adjustments faster to put RUN out there would be nice. It took a year and a couple months to get to this point of still being left out, and GEO has more use and is needed far more often than RUN. Would be nice to see some dramatic job changing adjustments to RUN to push it out there. I would like to tank in contents like Delve, High-Tier Battlefields, and New Skirmish. Right now that is very far from happening though due to time limits and other strategies being much better. I am slowly building RUN mythic without paying for high purity bayld, but earning through reives. I am far from that goal this way, but an Aettir RUN should be able to do things as well. Thanks for the response.

    - Nightfox
    (0)
    Last edited by Nightfox; 08-16-2014 at 02:31 AM.

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