Any chance we can have HP Bayld become more available?

[Jadey]

I had like 8m bayld before the HP version up, so I just spent that on HP.

I get HP all day long on easy lair rieves. And they are like 5 min repop lol.

And I spam legend assignments too. It all adds up. I sold all my HP for 16k each.

And the point I was making was that its all super easy solo content which drops HP, unlike VW which is alliance+proc and has a terrible drop rate.

Seriously if SE let me choose HP instead of HMP/cinders for my empys, I would light fireworks and dance around for joy. :P

As an Idris owner (and someone who personally farmed over 20 million bayld outside of drops/purchases) I think you're exaggerating your HPB rate. Looking back at my 2+ months of farming bayld/HPB, Lair reives where I was soloing the reive from 100-0% were about a 3-4% drop rate for HPB and colonization reives were a bit better, somewhere between 9-17% depending on the area. You do occasionally get runs where you're hitting 3+ HPB in a row from reives but those were anomalies. And continuous farming of bayld/HPB is possible, but none of it is terribly efficient.

Legend assignments? Let's take a best-case scenario where you already have the imprimatur timer down to 5 hours and get max bayld per assignment (Dho/Woh Gates Peacekeeper's, 5000 xp/bayld for 1 imprimatur) you get ~33 assignments per week * 5000 bayld is 165000 - or 16 HPB. More realistically you're doing Courier's Drifts to Biv#4 for 4750/assignment and getting 156750 (15HPB)/week. Every little bit helps, sure, but a week of assignments gets you one tenth of one percent of the way to an Ergon.

There are a few places where you can bounce between Lair Reives if you can drop them fast enough (I preferred the lairs in Foret between Bivs #3 and #4) which gives you two lairs every five minutes. The deeper Foret lairs give you an average of 2500 bayld/reive as long as you're alone (2000 for the #3 reive, 3000 for the #4 reive) so that's 5000 every 5 minutes. That's 60000 bayld/hour plus whatever lucky HPB drops you get. That's decent, but I found it better when nobody was in the zone to do a full clear of the 10 Colonization Reives around Foret and then hit the Lairs while you wait for the Colos to repop. Each Colo is ~3000 by itself alongside a better HPB droprate, plus you get another two easy lairs by the FS that give 1000/1500. A full Foret run takes less than a half hour and yields ~37500 bayld + the 30000 from a half hour of lair bouncing.

If you just want Colo reives/want to make cash outside of the HPB you can do the Ra'Kaznar Colos since they have a 15 minute repop. You have a ~3-4 minute walk between the two reives but generally you can kill both before the first one repops. That reive also ends up giving ~6000 bayld and a much higher HPB drop rate (plus those high-value Ra'ka heads) so a lower bayld/hr rate of 48000 might be something you're OK with. This also has the benefit of being a long enough reive that having other people there generally doesn't cut into your personal bayld count all that much.

Overall I think HPB/bayld conversions in general are in an odd sort of spot. HPB doesn't have much of a use for at least 95% of the current playerbase (and I think I may be underestimating it considering the current # of completed Ergon weapons across servers) so the price should be low. On the flip side, dedicated bayld farming - unlike other types of currency farming like Dynamis and Salvage - provides a much lower raw number, no real benefit for non-WKR outside of the bayld (capes are ok, but most people likely already have the ones they want) and actively penalizes having more than a few people doing it at the same time due to repop timers. Due to that, plus the apathy of the general server population to actually farm it, that keeps prices high, especially for those who DO farm a lot of it and understand that bulk sales will be valued higher since buyers hate picking through bazaars for random 1-2 HPB sales.

As Ophannus said, I think a push to add more incentive to doing reives could help. Maybe the rush for Alluvion Skirmish parts will help with that for a time. We'll see next week!

[Stompa]

As an Idris owner (and someone who personally farmed over 20 million bayld outside of drops/purchases) I think you're exaggerating your HPB rate.

Well to be fair I never counted the HPB total as I was just giving them to a RUN friend for free, and selling them at 16k.
However, I certainly counted selling/giving away over 30 stacks, my guess would be 3500-4000 HP total.

Also re; rieves, yesterday I got HP in three lair rieves in a row, with a 5~ minute interval. Then no HP on the next one. Then a 4th HP on the 5th lair rieve. That's 4 HP in 30~ minutes. Maybe I'm "lucky" that HP drops to me, but I don't see it that way - I want simulcra and capes.

Also if you do WKR, if you kill a lot of mobs you end up with lots of bayld from that, which you can convert to HP.

As a side note, after obtaining 25~ HP yesterday morning, solo, without breaking a sweat, I then joined an Uptala x12 run, with capped KI and capped proc lights, result : zero HMP to me. A few other people got pouches. But my Empys got no progress at all after 12 alliance battles, trading cells, proccing the mob, warping to get more stones, tossing junk, selling logs, buying more cells, trekking back to mob etc.. And all for nothing, zero progress on my weapon. And this is normal - its just normal luck-based empy Failwatch process. At least if you get 10 HPB or something you feel like "I've made progress on my weapon" even if it is small progress - VW is just this barrage of "zero progress" runs.

So my point really does stand, I would farm all the HP in the world for my empy, instead of hmp/rifts, if it were possible.

* Edited for brevity.

[Jadey]

Also re; rieves, yesterday I got HP in three lair rieves in a row, with a 5~ minute interval. Then no HP on the next one. Then a 4th HP on the 5th lair rieve. That's 4 HP in 30~ minutes. Maybe I'm "lucky" that HP drops to me, but I don't see it that way - I want simulcra and capes.

Yes, that's pretty much the definition of luck. If that's a typical run for you, congrats, you're going to be finishing your plates mighty quick if there's even one dedicated HPB buyer on Levi. Sell the HPB and buy the plates/simulacra. Honestly, if you farmed up somewhere between 20 and 30 million bayld (plus your HPB drops/Legend assignments) I'm confused that you aren't capped on capes since I hit 22/22 + extras shipped to mules around the 7-8 million farmed mark.

Also if you do WKR, if you kill a lot of mobs you end up with lots of bayld from that, which you can convert to HP.

This is a pretty common fallacy. Here are the issues with using WKR to farm personal bayld/HPB:

- The KI costs 15k bayld, so any bayld gains have to be weighed against that
- WKR bayld caps at 25k + the final ~2750, so your maximum net bayld gain is 12750
- To get to the bayld cap, the WKR has to last long enough. If you're following a large group, you may not get to the cap in time. If the group is too small, you hit the cap at 50% and spend the rest of the time fighting for no reward. I suppose you could leave once you cap, re-obtain the KI and go for more, but that seems overly complicated.
- You are all but guaranteed one HPB, but the box drop rate is beyond abysmal. Beyond 6F Salvage linen abysmal.

All in all, a 'good' WKR will get you a net of 22750 bayld (counting the HPB from the end) with a snowball's chance of a 3-15 count box. You could count the other people who now have HPB to sell, but you'd then also have to count your Uptala mates who got pouches as potential sellers since a 12-man Uptala run is going to come away with an average of 1 pouch dropping to at least one member of the run every 2 kills. That 12x Uptala group will average ~6 pouches across the alliance with an average of 9 plates per pouch. That's 54 plates either entering the sale market or getting someone closer to not being in the market anymore. That's roughly equal to 473 HPB in terms of how close that gets somebody to finishing. The numbers get even more lopsided if that Uptala group is full - each run has a ~67% chance of somebody getting a pouch. That maths out to ~72 plates or the equivalent 631 HPB.

This doesn't even touch the issue of pure supply. I see enough plates on Levi at 200k or less to get 45% done from zero. At the same time, there's enough HPB in bazaars at any price (100k/each even!) to get... 1.4% done. HPB buyers don't run into the issue of cost as much as the run into the fact that there just aren't many to buy. When I was at ~1500 to go until I finished, I raised my price and shouted for people to convert their full bayld stores. It still took over a dozen people to finish because the average person isn't running reives. They aren't diligent with their assignments. They can't do an instanced fight that takes a few minutes per run for a chance at a nice payday or an instanced zone that guarantees them 100+ currency when they succeed to get HPB. Bayld in general is worthless enough not to farm but ALSO worthless enough not to get rid of on the off chance that it has value in the future.

Even your zero-sweat 25 HPB morning, at general market HPB value, is about equal to a bog standard Arrapago II run - a run that takes an hour or less. And if you're going to respond that you hit that 25 HPB in an hour, then you're sitting on a goldmine and I hope nobody on your server starts shadowing you and eating into your profits while you corner the HPB market.

At least if you get 10 HPB or something you feel like "I've made progress on my weapon" even if it is small progress.

Getting 10 HPB, considering the amount needed, is about the same as leaving Voidwatch with 12 runs full of logs and stones that you NPC. That's .07% progress.

So my point really does stand, I would farm all the HP in the world for my empy, instead of hmp/rifts, if it were possible.

Why isn't it? Farm that easy HPB, sell it to desperate, supply constrained Ergon buyers, use it to buy the larger amounts of plates and cinders other people are lucky enough to get.

[Stompa]

Yes, that's pretty much the definition of luck. If that's a typical run for you, congrats, you're going to be finishing your plates mighty quick if there's even one dedicated HPB buyer on Levi.

Well HP sit unsold in bazaars all day long at 23k/e.

I put it at 16k because at 20k+ it doesnt sell. So the hordes of desperate HP buyers you are alluding to, are nowhere to be seen.

Plates are 150k~200k. So 10 HP would get me 1 plate. x1500. And thats even assuming ppl are rushing my bazaar to buy HP which theyre not.

I'm at 400 hmp and thats from grinding vw plus some gifts / purchases. You seem to miss my whole point, about being able to solo hp, but needing to grind alliance runs for hmp which then dont even drop most of the time. You focus a lot on the fact I got hp bayld drops, and make smart remarks about me cornering markets etc. You miss the point - I do rieves for other things including ROE clears / repeat sparks etc. I just seem to get a lot of hp drops. I got like 8hp just doing seekers missions and clearing rieves in my way.

Re; capes, I had every jse cape in the game and rage tossed all of them except war. Now I'm playing some other jobs again so I'm out farming capes again.

I resent the overly critical nature of your responses to me - you miss the point I was making entirely, which is I dont want to buy my plates and cinders, or waste thousands of hours in vw alliances when no plates drop. I was pointing out how lucky ergon players are that they can solo farm their hp, with a regular drop rate - a little progress every hour - as opposed to alliance vw grind which can just cold stall your weapon-building progress through no fault of your own.

I was originally responding to the earlier poster who said the same thing about hp / hmp. I agreed with them and just say I would literally party in the street and dance for joy, if I could solo easy prey content for hp and finish my empy that way, because I've given away 1000hp for free to a run friend and sold another 2500~ hp for chump change bcoz nobody wants to buy the stuff at 20k lol.

[dasva]

Last time I checked spreadsheet, using TP/WS set posted on AH forum, RUN ergon weapon with AM3 spamming reso can only do around 85% of dmg of Tsuru SAM on same target under same buff. I didn't add lunge/swipe dmg, but it has long recast time and you need runes to do it, which lowers DPS to put them back up, so I didn't calculate it.

A koga SAM can do a lot more than Tsuru SAM, and if you count the DPS lose to get 300 TP to activate(RUN probably get TP slower than SAM, mind you), then ergon GS is no where close to Koga's dmg. You can' compare DPS directly and say ergon GS is stronger DD weapon than mythic.

It's more of a tank weapon than DD weapon, if you want a DD weapon you'd build koga for cheaper price. It's certainly job changing enough to justify the price, but so does better mythics(which are cheaper)

You probably missed the first part where I said people were comparing what jobs with those weapons can do and not the weapons itself...

That would be like saying Rangnarok is a horrible weapon by comparing Koga sam to a pld using Rag lol

Not really sure what people were expecting from it... it takes care of RUNs problem with physical dmg making it an excellent tank and ups it's dmg capabilities a lot... did people really expect it to make RUN a top tier DD as well as a tank or something?

[dasva]

PW drop is 3, not 5. Alex cost 7.5k on my server, that's 225,000,000. Scoria cost 7.5M on my server as well, so that's 247M per mythic.

Ergon needs to farm legendary rank and plasm as well, so you can't really argue that Ergon needs less time if you have gil.

And here I can easily HPs for 20k which would bring ergon down to 265mil ish.

As far as time a lot of people have been at least getting some rank up since it is the current content and possibly storing tags so if you had been keeping up you probably already had almost legend. Regardless ranking up the coalitions also has the advantage of getting you the balyd.

Are ergons harder to make than mythics at this moment? Sure are but the difference isn't that big

[Malithar]

I resent the overly critical nature of your responses to me - you miss the point I was making entirely, which is I dont want to buy my plates and cinders, or waste thousands of hours in vw alliances when no plates drop. I was pointing out how lucky ergon players are that they can solo farm their hp, with a regular drop rate - a little progress every hour - as opposed to alliance vw grind which can just cold stall your weapon-building progress through no fault of your own.

Besides being overly critical of your HPB numbers (TBH, they remind me of the numbers a botter on my server quoted me he got from botting reives overnight) being realistic, you seem to be missing Jadey's point. HMPs do drop from VW, whether they drop to you or not, that's a whole nother story. Fact is, they're added to the market, and you can usually buy them cheap right there on the spot.

The fact that you don't want to pay for them has no real barring on it. In a perfect world, I would of preferred to not pay for the HPBs for Idris, either. But guess what? I did, because like you, I didn't want to spend thousands of hours grinding reives. Buck up, pay up, and get'er done, ya know? Or keep whining and hope you get a pouch or two on that next Uptala. Either works in the long run I suppose.

[Vinedrai]

Why one farm 20m bayld to begin with is what I am most curious about o.O Premonition? I don't remember anything to justify the extreme bayld farming before ergon weapons...

[newmonkey]

I swear you people moan just for the sake of it, or it's like you haven't played the game for years hp-bayld is new so the price is higher right now, in time it will settle lower.

[Balloon]

Why one farm 20m bayld to begin with is what I am most curious about o.O Premonition? I don't remember anything to justify the extreme bayld farming before ergon weapons...

I didn't, but it always seemed kind of obvious to me that in some form the Ergons would use Bayld in some sense, and assaults would be replaced with assignment stuff - since they're mythic equivs.