Next R/M/E Update

[Afania]

The development team will be looking into upgrading R/M/E gear once they have implemented item level 120+. With that said, please understand that we have no concrete details to share in regards to when this (R/M/E upgrades & Item Level 120+) will be happening; just know that there are plans in the works!

I hope empy get a WS dmg+ or higher stat when next tier of ilv come, atm it's more expensive than a mythic with less DPS.

[Aeron]

I hope empy get a WS dmg+ or higher stat when next tier of ilv come, atm it's more expensive than a mythic with less DPS.

This please, there is really no reason why making a wpn that costs around 200m gil should not have a multiplier for the ws that it was originally associated with.

Is there going to be an increase to the overall stats to REM this next time or is it just going to be a dps upgrade like last time from 99-119?

[pretre]

I do agree that rem should get a damage bump as its starting to get left behind and yes I was one of the main people /crying on these forums when they forgot the rem weapons in the first place but I do feel happy to know that the weapon that took me a year to make will keep getting updated after every ilvl jump without me having to try to start a revolution every day on the forums to get that but please don't wait so long next time, and let us sell our cruor

[Damane]

I hope empy get a WS dmg+ or higher stat when next tier of ilv come, atm it's more expensive than a mythic with less DPS.

ergon RUN and GEO would like a word with you...

[Afania]

ergon RUN and GEO would like a word with you...

Ergon weapons are job changing though, besides harp empy weapons are crap for it's price.

Before mythic became soloable, it's the hardest weapon to obtain, thus the price was justified. Atm it's much cheaper than cinder empy, and most DD mythics are a whole lot better, mage mythic also offers unique stat. Compare with mythic, empy is the weakest of all 3 legendary weapon. It doesn't offer unique attribute, it doesn't offer awesome DPS.

Since most mythic has unique attribute for the job, empy should offer the highest DPS IMO.

[Byrth]

WS changes would be fine and good, but Empyreans also need a minor base damage boost (relative to Relics and Mythics). SE just messed up when they released the last set of values, really. It's possible that they were still considering Empyrean WS access to be one of the selling points of the weapons, but the quest to unlock those WSs pretty much took care of that.

Example:
* Twashtar has D89, 176 delay, DEX+20, and using Rudra's Storm gives a 30-50% Double damage aftermath (tends towards the 30%).
* Mandau has D91, 176 delay, Attack+40, Additional Effect: Poison, and gives access to Mercy Stroke (with damage+40%), and 13% Triple damage on the first swing with that hand (about the same as 15% double damage with current gear). Mercy Stroke gives a +5% Critical hit rate (including both hands and WS, iirc) aftermath.

So Mandau is basically a stronger half-AM Twashtar that doesn't rely on aftermath and gives access to Mercy Stroke. Twashtar's Aftermath effect is stronger than Mandau's but Mandau's isn't worthless either ('specially considering Evisceration) and Mercy Stroke is pretty cool and beats Rudra's Storm (which Mandau users also have access to) when stacked at 1000TP.

[Audard]

R/E/M needs a massive overhaul to begin with.
First and foremost, HMPs need to be obtained from more places.
Every VWNM should drop either several plates or a pouch. Chance of pouch varies on the tier, so if you are fighting a sandy T1 NM it is like 1% and if you are fighting Pil its like 10%.
Final stage of Empy should not be 3000...

Mythic weapons just need to be redone from scratch.
Never forget when these came out, it was the biggest laugh and still is.
Some have weird and obnoxious WS modifiers and others are just plain useless.
Alexandrites... this is the most discussed problem in R/E/Ms along side HMPs. 30,000 is beyond a joke. Make it 10,000 and increase ways to obtain slightly.
These are just some quick thoughts, i would love to go deeper but time is money!

[Protey]

R/E/M needs a massive overhaul to begin with.
First and foremost, HMPs need to be obtained from more places.
Every VWNM should drop either several plates or a pouch. Chance of pouch varies on the tier, so if you are fighting a sandy T1 NM it is like 1% and if you are fighting Pil its like 10%.
Final stage of Empy should not be 3000...

Mythic weapons just need to be redone from scratch.
Never forget when these came out, it was the biggest laugh and still is.
Some have weird and obnoxious WS modifiers and others are just plain useless.
Alexandrites... this is the most discussed problem in R/E/Ms along side HMPs. 30,000 is beyond a joke. Make it 10,000 and increase ways to obtain slightly.
These are just some quick thoughts, i would love to go deeper but time is money!

i have no problem with it being 30,000 alexandrite. strangely enough, i get 30,000 in roughly the same time it takes me to do 50 assaults + 150,000 tokens from nyzul.

[InpendingDeath]

R/E/M needs a massive overhaul to begin with.
First and foremost, HMPs need to be obtained from more places.
Every VWNM should drop either several plates or a pouch. Chance of pouch varies on the tier, so if you are fighting a sandy T1 NM it is like 1% and if you are fighting Pil its like 10%.
Final stage of Empy should not be 3000...

Mythic weapons just need to be redone from scratch.
Never forget when these came out, it was the biggest laugh and still is.
Some have weird and obnoxious WS modifiers and others are just plain useless.
Alexandrites... this is the most discussed problem in R/E/Ms along side HMPs. 30,000 is beyond a joke. Make it 10,000 and increase ways to obtain slightly.
These are just some quick thoughts, i would love to go deeper but time is money!

Plates aren't the problem, there the easy part. The problem is Cinders/Dross. No one does these NMs anymore cause they'd rather do T3s and reforge material VWs. You can join T3s and buy all the plates and do pouch NMs which people still do and get plates easy. If it's too hard for you don't do it.

[machini]

i have no problem with it being 30,000 alexandrite. strangely enough, i get 30,000 in roughly the same time it takes me to do 50 assaults + 150,000 tokens from nyzul.

I'm currently putting together a mythic, and helping a friend make their second relic. From my point of view, the problem with mythics is that they are the only choice for ToAU and Wings jobs these days.

Non 119 weapons are useless in 119 content. COR, PUP, DNC, and SCH cannot equip Relic weapons, for reasons. Empyrean weapons are so stupidly hard to get to 99 to 119 them due to 1500 HMP and the other requirements they have to get past 90. So for those of us who have not been playing continuously since the game launched and do not have maxed gil and were not able to do Nyzul, Salvage, and Voidwatch when those were the end game hot content, we have neither the money for Empyrean weapons, nor the saved up ichor and tokens so many other people seem to have (or claim to have.)

One person I spoke to a month or so ago said that Mythics weren't hard because he could just go and straight up buy all the alexandrite he needed, or would except for the cat's eye he has rotting in his storage, and that he has plenty of ichor and tokens to make one, he just doesn't need one. While I am somewhat dubious as to his claim, I have heard other, similar things from other players who have been playing for the better part of a decade, and were able to do this content back when it was the hot stuff and so have amassed a good deal of the required currency.

Furthermore, let's compare what it takes to make the REM weapons.

I have four friends who are helping me with the mythic, and we are also helping one of those people with a relic, and then will be rotating through people to do more relics.

A relic requires ~18,000 currency (I like round numbers because math is hard.)
We average ~330 currency per person per day we do Dynamis together, even if we have to compete for spawns with others, as we have become exceedingly efficient at this.
That's ~1600 currency per day. Which is 12 days to make a relic. Or, at least, to get all the currency to make one. So, working together, the five of us can make a relic in as long as it takes to do the in game waits for the stage turn ins.

A mythic requires 150,000 Tokens, 100,000 Ichor, 30,000 Alexandrite, and recompleting all 50 assaults. Not even gonna get into the ZNM stuff.
We seem to be able to start on floor 96 of Nyzul and do 10 floors reliably. If we alternate who spends tokens to start it, that's ~3500 tokens per day. So that's 43 days of Nyzul for the tokens require. It's slightly less if you include the arm band, but not significantly less. The easiest way to get ichor would be the five of us and a mule doing T3 einherjar. So that's just under 2000 ichor per day, so just over 50 days of doing Einherjar to get all the ichor required. Then there's recompleting all the assaults, and, assuming you get no failures, that's 50 days. As to the alexandrite, 5 people averaging about 100 Alexandrite per day is 60 or so days to get all 30,000 Alexandrite. Salvage and Einherjar can be done concurrently with assault, but Nyzul and other assaults all require tags, which you get one of per day. So it takes ~93 Tags, and therefore ~93 days, to get all the assault and nyzul done. So it takes 93 days to do a single mythic.

I'm not even going to get into Empyrean as that's just too depressing.

But to compare, it takes us ~2 weeks to pop out a relic and ~3 months to do a mythic (minimum). This is with FIVE people working together. So a relic we make takes about 120 man hours to make. A mythic would require about two hours per day of effort just for Nyzul/Assault, Einherjar, and Salvage. So a mythic for us will have required 930 man hours to make. Which is just under 8x as long in terms of total effort invested.

Now, that is with five people. Solo, I can get about 250 currency per day pretty easily, more if I actually make an effort. So 18,000 currency at 250 per day is 72 days, or 144 man hours to make. To make a mythic solo would require about three hundred days of effort to get all the alexandrite solo doing salvage, and five other people's help to do Einherjar. So ~100 days of assaults/nyzul and ~300 days of Salvage comes out to ~530 man hours to make, spread over almost a whole year. So in the time it takes someone to make a mythic solo (assuming they can get bodies for einherjar, and ignoring ZNM stuff), you can make almost 4 relics, solo, in the time it takes to make one mythic.

Considering the relative power levels of relics to mythics, and the fact that, on my server at least, some jobs are considered trash no matter how well they are geared, mythic or not, relics are either too easy to get or mythics are too hard to get. Which hits COR PUP DNC and SCH harder than the other pre-Seekers jobs, since they cannot use Relics and Empyrean are even harder to get (and not as good).

I guess the tl;dr: of this would be that mythics are stupid hard for anyone who has not been playing this game for a continuous decade, and I think that people who have been playing this game for that long and have stockpiles of all the non-seekers currencies forget that other players don't have the same resources and lose sight of how ridiculously hard it is to make mythics.

So either make Ichor and Tokens more easily obtainable, via either AMAN Currency Exchange or just increasing the amount received, and either lower the alexandrite requirement or drastically increase the drop rate.

I eagerly await the flaming, as it's very cold in my room.