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  1. #1
    Player Riki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4
    Character
    Rikirocket
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99

    Fix "Call Wyvern" > /points finger at the Dev Team <

    This is a simple request for the call wyvern timer to be reduced. As no matter what type of drg you play i am sure you argee that the wyvern matters. I want the timer fixed to about 5min or a JA that pulls out the wyvern in a weakend state (possibly with the offset of cant use spirit link)

    Now before you all get on your back in the day high horse remeber that day has past. You no longer grind to level 10 and prey that you get a dunes party... there are many examples of this that i could give but this is not the point of my post. The point is that making the wyverns def more in line with the 119 gear cap and such makes sence even if its only a passive trait that is recived at level 99 drg. I am glad to see this however it needs to go further, much further.

    As the timer for call wyvern is a bit of a joke by today's gaming standard. Think about it what can a drg do even better with a lower call wyvern timer, not much to be honest. So why ask for it to be lower? Simple without the wyvern a drg just dosent work as well as a stright DD or as a /mage

    All the new gear boosts jump, high jump and the EMN that the drg has gathered (or the folks behind them in Sp.Surge) but the fact is simple when have you as a drg or seen a drg use anything other than Spirit and soul jumps? you dont not really. The reason for this is TP, the wyvern gives more TP per jump, with the emp gear they get even more tp.

    So simple dd maths here...

    More tp = more damage = more hate = cant hit super jump fast enough = dead drg = dead wyvern

    not too bad you can just recall right, sure but thats just this time. If you happen to do that more than once and it can and does happen in the newer areas hell even walk of echos is a great spot to murder my blue flying buddy. It gets old and foces me to come off of DRG and play another job that isnt playing chicken with a 20 min timer.

    This might seam like an unfair way of looking at it but if a SAM had to wait 10 or 20 min for hasso the forums would crash lol, but that's just it, the wyvern is that important to playing a drg. Theres alot of drg out there that don't fully get how the pets HP and TP works and couldn't care less if there pet dies, and for them i say thats fine for them. However when your wyvern is busting out 1.3k healing breaths left right and center keeping your party alive and your putting still the damage too, 20 min wait is far too much.

    heres a pet timer in all other jobs that use pets

    Bst ~ 15 second to 5 min depending on charm or call beast
    pup 1 min to 20 min (and the 20 min catagory can be merited down)
    SMN a matter of seconds

    All i am asking for is a level playing field that when i get up and get killed or charmed or whatever that i don't need to wait 20 min to play again, or be forced to swap to a different job. What i would like to see is the timer droped to 5 min as that would let DRG rock out thier job. Hell even if they give us an overload sort of new JA that would be fine to. But please SE this issue needs addressed it has went on for far too long.

    If you seen a pup w/o a puppet it would make you think why? Why have they not just called the puppet in a weak state. Sure you got to cure them but you got your BLM/Tank/Whm/RNG/DD >the list goes on< back and your doing your job then they say something like nahh going to wait 20 min because its going to be weak is just stupid.

    But here SE thinks thats ok for DRG, i dont think its ok for drg at all. We should have something that lets us call our pets back at a rate thats on par with other jobs on the pet classes.

    Sorry for my lack of spelling and such and ty for taking the time to read my post.

    Please feel free to add to this
    (5)

  2. #2
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,401
    Considering how many tools we have to keep our wyvern alive, 10-15min is more fair than 5. If they lowered to 5, they'd have to nerf some of the defensive buffs they gave Wyverns, like reduce their HP, DMG-% taken, raise spirit link recast, reduce its potency, reduce the regen effect spirit link grants, decrease parameter boost, eva, def, mdef and Steady Wing potency. All of those things were increases over the last few years with a 20min timer in mind.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player Mitruya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    356
    Character
    Mitruya
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Would you say that pet wyverns have the best buffs versus the other pets with shorter recasts?
    There was already a post earlier this month that stated "automaton's defense is quite high" compared to other pets. A quick comparison of /checkparams showed that my wyvern had slightly higher def over Balloon's automaton, and this was before any JA buff or parameter boost. (of course there was the whole confusion about Pro/Shell, and Camate has since edited his post to strike out that whole paragraph so I don't know if that is still the devs' sentiment or not about which pet has the best defense)

    Would you say that our current buffs + incoming August buff + a 10-15 minute recast would be enough for the job? Does it seem fair in comparison to the MNKs, RNGs, SAMs, whatever stomping all over content?
    I know you're trying to give us a reality check so we don't get our hopes too high (and remind us to use the tools at our disposal), but you've also written some really good posts about how to update the job so it will catch up. Would a 10 minute or less recast be that game-breaking? Even you have pointed out how harshly the master is penalized for 20 minutes versus any other job in the game.

    I'd be kinda curious to see a comparison chart of pet stats versus recast times and all that.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,401
    I think that either setting the recast at 15 minutes would be fair considering the pace of the game, 15minutes is still an eternity. 10 minutes is a bit too strong of a recast considering Spirit Link is a full cure for our Wyvern, powerful Regen, Steady Wing is 2-3k Stoneskin and recast is not that bad.

    But I would also like for them to shoe-horn in an "extra" or "alternative" way to summon our Wyvern pet via a different job ability, for extreme emergencies. Letting Spirit Surge be used even without a Wyvern, but when doing so, a Wyvern is summoned in an enhanced state(like Rouse Wyvern SP2 ability which made Wyverns invulnerable for 60 seconds and enhanced stats/shorter recast on JA breaths). Allowing us to use Spirit Surge without a Wyvern to summon a new Wyvern makes sense for an SP ability. If our Wyvern is present, we get the regular Spirit Surge bonuses we have now. If Wyvern is not present, activating Spirit Surge calls a new Wyvern, gives it powerful bonus stats temporarily and resets the Call Wyvern timer.

    This way Spirit Surge can be used depending on the situation. It kills the Wyvern so Dragoons are very limited after using Spirit Surge; no other job in the game is at a disadvantage for up to 20minutes after using Spirit Surge, and honestly the effects of Spirit Surge are not proportional to that penalty).

    15 minutes recast would be optimally balanced, and buff Spirit Surge to refresh Call Wyvern normally or have a secondary effect when no Wyvern is present. Another 3rd option is introduce an ability like Deus Ex Automata, but for Wyverns. Call Wyvern with a powerful Stoneskin effect and full HP but breaths cannot be used for 2 minutes and has a Slow effect or something, i don't know.

    Just, in addition to a shorten recast, DRG needs a secondary way to summon a pet because irregardless of how much Defense or Magic Defense the Wyvern has, Dragoons die in combat and lose their Wyvern. Most of the time, Dragoons die because of no fault of their own, simply slow healers or a bad pull and the party wipes. A Dragoon dying will kill the Wyvern despite any amount of defense the dev teams give it and thus are then worthless for 20minutes of the Delve or BCNM(most are 30-45 minutes, so that's about half or more than half of the fight. Wyverns are not that powerful of an asset to an alliance's firepower that justifies such a long recast. If Wyverns were contributing even 30% of the Dragoon's damage(in reality it's more like 1%) then maybe a 20minute recast would be fair, but the 20min recast is not commensurte with the Wyvern's overall importance to a group's success, overall its contribution to the alliance's damage is inconsequential and it's only purpose in reality is to be alive--by proxy--for a Dragoon to benefit for Spirit and Soul Jump.

    Dragoon is a candle burned at both ends. We are weaker than Warrior, Samurai, Monk, Ranger and Dark Knight unless we have Mythic, in which case, we're still outclassed by those jobs, just to a smaller degree. That being said, if our damage is weaker than those damage dealers WITH a Wyvern, then without a Wyvern, we're just bringing the alliance's performance down a huge amount.

    When any other job in the game dies, they are back to full potential after 3-5minutes of Weakness. When a Dragoon dies after summoning a Wyvern they are handicapped for up to 20minutes. Without a Wyvern, a Dragoon is just a weakened Samurai with a polearm but with fewer job abilities. We have no native stance job abilities like Berserk or Hasso to be of any use without a Wyvern. Jumps deal ~300-500 damage because they don't receive the Critical Hit or Attack Bonus that Spirit Jump and Soul Jump receive. The reduced TP granted by Jump and High Jump means that because of job ability delay and using those Jumps when we have marches and haste actually slows down our damage. No other job faces a 20 minute penalty to be back at full strength. BST's Call Beast is 5minutes, PUP has 2 ways to call their Automaton, Corsair is only disabled for 5minutes when they Bust etc.. NO OTHER JOB FACES SUCH A HARSH PENALTY!!
    (3)
    Last edited by Ophannus; 08-01-2014 at 05:16 AM.

  5. #5
    Player Casey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3
    Character
    Casey
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    Well, this is certainly more an issue than ever. Now without the wyvern the DRG is missing a boatload of beneficial stats. Lets not forget that if you're soloing hard stuff on drg where you need to use healing breath you cannot at all engage in a fight until the wyvern is back. A 20 minute recast on an essential job function is completely ludicrous. The wyvern sure is nigh invincible, but the DRG is not.

    I'd really be ok with a 2nd call wyvern timer that has a weakened wyvern with a 5min duration just like the regular weakness. It's just completely insane that I should have to wait up to 20 minutes just to fight again when solo, which also includes normal weakness timer of 5 mins. The penalty for dying multiple times shouldn't vary depending on job.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player Xsilver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    62
    Character
    Highwynn
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 99
    Yes but now they can argue: "We gave you benefits with your Wyvern that make you pretty strong to compensate for the fact that when you lose it, you're weakened".

    In other words, risk=reward. If they made Call Wyvern a 5min recast, they'd strip our buffs or greatly reduce them.

    20min is a bit on the longish side. I'm not going to say it's unfair now because now we have way more incentive to keep it alive, although sometimes the DRAGOON dies and with it the Wyvern. In other words, in many fights, the Dragoon dies before the Wyvern, but they tried to account for that by giving us a free +20% defense, giving us almost as much natural defense as a Paladin(and certainly more than any other DD)
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player Bebekeke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    97
    I'd settle for Call Wyvern wearing off when the weakened status wears off the DRG. OK, there are a couple of mobs out there that can inflict weakness which would increase availability of the wyvern, but as a general rule, the wyvern isn't dying itself. In fact, since the september update, the only time that I found my wyvern would die was in WoE flux 15 while fighting an elemental that was constantly doing AOEs that petrified me. This meant that other people could cure me, but I couldn't cure my wyvern.

    But yeah apart from that it's not the wyvern that's dying... it's the DRG itself. CW being reset when weakness wears (or even just the Wyvern reappearing and not affecting the CW timer at all) seems to me the fairest option.
    (1)

  8. #8
    Player Angarato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    8
    Character
    Angarato
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    Simple solution that makes sense. if WE die, let our wyvern come back when we get raised! only make the wyvern leave if A: it dies, B: we dismiss it, C: spirit surge is used. when we go inside a town the wyvern waits for us too. could make it so it does that when we die. problem solved.
    (5)

  9. #9
    Player Mitruya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    356
    Character
    Mitruya
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    I support that idea. If all the buffs mean we have to keep the 20 min timer for balance, at least let us get the wyvern back when we raise. We may have all kinds of ways to keep it alive but we can't necessarily do that for ourselves.
    I'll echo all the other posters by again repeating that no other job is gimped like that after weakness wears off.
    Why didn't DRG get HP Boost or more defense or something?
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player Angarato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    San d'Oria
    Posts
    8
    Character
    Angarato
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    also CHARM removes our wyvern! stop that shit. just make it come back after charm or w/e. when I get charmed in besieged or dynamis or w/e i'm gimped for 20 minutes. its so god damn lame
    (3)

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