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  1. #1
    Player Damane's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    715
    Character
    Damane
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99

    Empyrean Weaponskill

    I know Empyrean weapons cant and wont ever be used by RUN and GEO. the Dev team doesnt want to add both jobs to them, but can you at least add an option to unlock their WSs also for RUN and GEO via a quest? It would be nice if:

    RUN gets another WS option with Torcleaver (Greatsword)
    and GEO gets another utility WS with Dagan (Club)

    I feel the jobs are shafted in that department to some degree :/, all other jobs got an additional WS option with the implementing of makeing Emyprean Weapon Weaponskills questable, RUN and GEO did not, we are lacking 1 WS that is available on every weapon compared to other jobs.
    (6)
    Last edited by Damane; 07-24-2014 at 12:22 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    70
    I agree. The master of greatswords not being able to use Caladbolg's Torcleaver is pretty damn silly.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    447
    Quote Originally Posted by Damane View Post
    GEO gets another utility WS with Dagan (Club)
    I'd absolutely adore this for Idris. My biggest complaint when messing around with Geo melee is going from staff to club is the WS selection. You lose out on Spirit Taker (more or less "here's your full MP pool!" at 1000 TP) and Calamity, the equivalent of a JA enhanced -Ra II that doesn't scale down on the number of targets hit, easily pulling just shy of 4k at 1000 TP. Pull 10 mobs and hit em with a 3000 TP Calamity with a good set, easy 9k+ on each mob.

    Club though?... :/ At least Flash Nova is a very solid magic damage WS, 5k+ at 1000 TP isn't anything to scoff at, and the Flash effect is useful enough. But Moonlight and Starlight (why wasn't this increased above Moonlight during the WS revamp since it's only effecting you? ; ; ) pale in comparison to Myrkr, Dagan, and Spirit Taker, making any sort of melee + magic scenario very stringent to keep up with.
    (0)
    7/10/14

  4. #4
    Player Babekeke's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Malithar View Post
    Calamity
    Cataclysm, right?
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    447
    Shhhh, I figured out how to axe things on Geo. <.<

    (Yes ._.)
    (1)
    7/10/14

  6. #6
    Player Ataraxia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    146
    Character
    Angelicsmile
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Rune Fencer is indeed a master of great sword and I agree that rune fencer should be allow to use all great sword ws like empyrean ws torcleaver and access to great sword relic ws as well. A Rune Fencer should be able to use any great sword weapon because their combat skill is rank A great sword and there should be no restriction to a master of great sword weapon. :/ But the Dev team have said no before so I doubt they will allow this. I hope in the future they will consider it because right now war, sam, drk, monk can do more damage than run fencer even with their updated weapon skills currently.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player Babekeke's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Ataraxia View Post
    I hope in the future they will consider it because right now war, sam, drk, monk can do more damage than run fencer even with their updated weapon skills currently.
    Even with Torcleaver, RUN is not going to out-damage WAR, SAM, DRK, MNK. RUN has great utility and survivability (even with only Aettir). Hopefully RUN is 1 of the jobs receiving the HP bonus in the coming update, too.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player Karbuncle's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,314
    Quote Originally Posted by Ataraxia View Post
    Rune Fencer is indeed a master of great sword and I agree that rune fencer should be allow to use all great sword ws like empyrean ws torcleaver and access to great sword relic ws as well. A Rune Fencer should be able to use any great sword weapon because their combat skill is rank A great sword and there should be no restriction to a master of great sword weapon. :/ But the Dev team have said no before so I doubt they will allow this. I hope in the future they will consider it because right now war, sam, drk, monk can do more damage than run fencer even with their updated weapon skills currently.
    Uhhh.... while i agree they should have access to Empyrean WS, theres no reason RUN should come close to WAR/SAM/DRK/MNK damage. WAR/SAM/DRK/MNK were designed as DD's, they're there to deal damage.. RUN (and by extension) PLD aren't, they aren't designed to deal as much damage as those jobs.

    Now, I know the players have turned WAR/SAM/MNK into "tanks" due to the DD tank strategies, but they're designed as DD, so they do damage. Its intended that they do more damage than PLD and RUN. PLD is technically the master of Sword and Shield, and RUN greatswords, doesn't mean they'll be top tier DDs.

    Still, agreed, they should have access to Empyrean weaponskill.
    (0)
    Last edited by Karbuncle; 07-27-2014 at 11:32 AM.

  9. #9
    Player Louispv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    280
    Character
    Louispv
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Karbuncle View Post
    Uhhh.... while i agree they should have access to Empyrean WS, theres no reason RUN should come close to WAR/SAM/DRK/MNK damage. WAR/SAM/DRK/MNK were designed as DD's, they're there to deal damage.. RUN (and by extension) PLD aren't, they aren't designed to deal as much damage as those jobs.

    Now, I know the players have turned WAR/SAM/MNK into "tanks" due to the DD tank strategies, but they're designed as DD, so they do damage. Its intended that they do more damage than PLD and RUN. PLD is technically the master of Sword and Shield, and RUN greatswords, doesn't mean they'll be top tier DDs.

    Still, agreed, they should have access to Empyrean weaponskill.
    Nope you are exactly the opposite of correct. WAR and MNK were designed specifically as Tanks. MNK gets nothing to help it DD until past 75 but Focus and kick attacks, with almost everything being defensive. (HP bonus, counter, subtle blow, chakra, mantra.) Half of it's abilities don't even work unless it's tanking. (Counter, counterstance, perfect counter, dodge.) And WAR was the designated tank until PLD was added. (Provoke and defender are WAR abilities not PLD's.) SAM was designed as a tank as well, between heavy armor, high evasion, highest parry until COR and RUN, third eye, rice balls all giving DEF, and every SAM enemy and NPC being incredibly tanky. Zanshin was even to make up for the low ACC of tanking gear, and store tp for the low damage in tanking gear.

    And NIN was a DD, but we reversed them. And SE has been throwing more and more stuff at them to try and turn that around since then. Seigan, Tactical Guard, Overwhelm, Inner strength, retaliation, etc. (Did you know Seigan is both shadows AND counterstance with no DEF penalty now? It's insane!) Giving the rest of these jobs HP bonus is just yet another step to trying to get them back into tanking. A step from the same people that thought giving WAR fencer and shield defense bonus would get them to tank, but a step none the less.

    Back on topic, at least RUN isn't on the magian weapons as an excuse. GEO on the other hand is on all the magian staves and clubs. For crying out loud they are on the fake, WS only empyrian, but can't use dagan once you unlock it! (I didn't bother to check if they could use the WS with the fake empyrian equipped, but if they can equip it it aught to work, dudes.) It's not like rudra's storm was made DNC only after you unlock it.

    It really ought to work for anyone who can equip that weapon type across the board. Quietus for instance, is a MND based WS that ignores defense, usable only by a job with terrible MND, and that has enough attack for defense ignorable to be pointless. But BST has the second best MND in the game and is constantly lacking attack, a match made in heaven, but no dice. And who really would suffer if THF could use Wildfire, (an elemental WS not based on weapon damage, since they have terrible ranged weapon selection) or COR could use Trueflight? (Leaden Salute but for light skillchains instead of darkness.)
    (0)
    Last edited by Louispv; 07-30-2014 at 07:06 PM.

  10. #10
    Player Damane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    715
    Character
    Damane
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Louispv View Post
    Nope you are exactly the opposite of correct. WAR and MNK were designed specifically as Tanks. MNK gets nothing to help it DD until past 75 but Focus and kick attacks, with almost everything being defensive. (HP bonus, counter, subtle blow, chakra, mantra.) Half of it's abilities don't even work unless it's tanking. (Counter, counterstance, perfect counter, dodge.) And WAR was the designated tank until PLD was added. (Provoke and defender are WAR abilities not PLD's.) SAM was designed as a tank as well, between heavy armor, high evasion, highest parry until COR and RUN, third eye, rice balls all giving DEF, and every SAM enemy and NPC being incredibly tanky. Zanshin was even to make up for the low ACC of tanking gear, and store tp for the low damage in tanking gear.

    And NIN was a DD, but we reversed them. And SE has been throwing more and more stuff at them to try and turn that around since then. Seigan, Tactical Guard, Overwhelm, Inner strength, retaliation, etc. (Did you know Seigan is both shadows AND counterstance with no DEF penalty now? It's insane!) Giving the rest of these jobs HP bonus is just yet another step to trying to get them back into tanking. A step from the same people that thought giving WAR fencer and shield defense bonus would get them to tank, but a step none the less.

    Back on topic, at least RUN isn't on the magian weapons as an excuse. GEO on the other hand is on all the magian staves and clubs. For crying out loud they are on the fake, WS only empyrian, but can't use dagan once you unlock it! (I didn't bother to check if they could use the WS with the fake empyrian equipped, but if they can equip it it aught to work, dudes.) It's not like rudra's storm was made DNC only after you unlock it.

    It really ought to work for anyone who can equip that weapon type across the board. Quietus for instance, is a MND based WS that ignores defense, usable only by a job with terrible MND, and that has enough attack for defense ignorable to be pointless. But BST has the second best MND in the game and is constantly lacking attack, a match made in heaven, but no dice. And who really would suffer if THF could use Wildfire, (an elemental WS not based on weapon damage, since they have terrible ranged weapon selection) or COR could use Trueflight? (Leaden Salute but for light skillchains instead of darkness.)
    1. noones asking to make the empy WSs accessable across all jobs.
    2. This is about giving 2 jobs a WS they lack compared to other jobs, their WS list is missing 1 WS when compareing them to other jobs in comparable situations. RUN and GEO got their "mythic" WS like the other jobs, but since empy WSs are now questable, it shouldnt be a surprise that RUN and GEO should get the possibility to quest the empy WS on their respectiv Weaponclasses they have mastered: RUN Greatsword, GEO Clubs. If you compare other Jobs WS option list on their Master-Weaponclass you allways see that GEO and RUN are lacking 1 WS in their respectiv Master- Weaponclass list.


    @Arbalest: noones saying that Dimidiation is bad, its a very great WS. Its about adding another option for SC setups.
    (0)

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