Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 30
  1. #1
    Player Zeargi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Currently: Windurst
    Posts
    743

    Special Effects that shouldn't be dispelable

    So, I've played a lot of the jobs through the years, but there are a few things that bother. Abilities such as Yonin and Innin, I feel that there are 'stances' and should not be able to be removed. Similiarly, Sublimation (Active and Complete, Fan Dance, Saber Dance, and Avatar's Favor. These are just a few that I feel that shouldn't be targetable via Dispel.... But that's just my thoughts.
    (17)
    Last edited by Zeargi; 07-22-2014 at 09:08 AM.
    "What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets. But enough talk... Have at you!" Lord Dracula - [Castlevania:SotN]

  2. #2
    Player
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,098
    I think dispel in general used by mobs needs to have a few more restrictions placed on it. Full buff wipes of more than 15 buffs, the ability to remove buffs that we have on long timers such as the things you mentioned, as well as Composure and the other similar effects, and the fact that so far as I know we simply can't resist Dispel, or it's very unlikely at very least, makes it worthy of some adjustments in just what it can target and what limits it has on it in general.
    (12)

  3. #3
    Player Babekeke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Demonjustin View Post
    Iso far as I know we simply can't resist Dispel, or it's very unlikely at very least, makes it worthy of some adjustments in just what it can target and what limits it has on it in general.
    I should imagine that RUN with lux x3 and pflug will resist it. Heck I can resist death, so surely dispel is resistable? I'll have to test it and get back to you.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player Olor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,134
    Quote Originally Posted by Demonjustin View Post
    I think dispel in general used by mobs needs to have a few more restrictions placed on it. Full buff wipes of more than 15 buffs, the ability to remove buffs that we have on long timers such as the things you mentioned, as well as Composure and the other similar effects, and the fact that so far as I know we simply can't resist Dispel, or it's very unlikely at very least, makes it worthy of some adjustments in just what it can target and what limits it has on it in general.
    Agree with this and signed.
    (1)
    http://photobucket.com/gallery/http://s19.photobucket.com/user/soulchld4/media/Olorinus-Signature.jpg.html

  5. #5
    Player Damane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    715
    Character
    Damane
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Babekeke View Post
    I should imagine that RUN with lux x3 and pflug will resist it. Heck I can resist death, so surely dispel is resistable? I'll have to test it and get back to you.
    no, i imagine dispel has a higher m.acc base value (like stun or flash have a far higher base m.acc value on the spell), death might have a far lower m.acc base value, the amounts of dispels i have seen resisted on my run can be counted on 1 hand sadly :/

    while dispels are annoying i see them as part of the battle-strategy etc. if you dont want to loose some specific buffs use different job setups (for example geo buffs cant be dispelled at all). I dont see there being a big issue, ecxept for CORs imho.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,098
    Quote Originally Posted by Damane View Post
    no, i imagine dispel has a higher m.acc base value (like stun or flash have a far higher base m.acc value on the spell), death might have a far lower m.acc base value, the amounts of dispels i have seen resisted on my run can be counted on 1 hand sadly :/

    while dispels are annoying i see them as part of the battle-strategy etc. if you dont want to loose some specific buffs use different job setups (for example geo buffs cant be dispelled at all). I dont see there being a big issue, ecxept for CORs imho.
    This also depends on the job though. Take for instance a job like RDM who's entirely dependant on buffs but can have all 15+ buffs it casts on itself dispelled at once in a single attack, the only buffs that make it at all comparable to any sort of frontline job or give it a defense against it's enemy. If dispel were more balanced, something along the line of 3 buffs max and if it had a much lower chance of selecting certain buffs such as Composure that would count as 2 or 3 buffs, then I'd be ok with it. The fact all buffs are equal in the eyes of dispel and that all are able to be displayed in a single attack are both things that in my opinion make it completely overpowered against some jobs. That on top of the fact that even the lowest leveled of monsters seem to have little problem dispelling my buffs even though I'm more than 50 levels above them supposedly just goes to show that it's level of MAcc is far higher than it should be when cast by mobs, especially when you think of the fact our dispel doesn't seem to share in that benefit otherwise people wouldn't have any issues dispelling the Mandragora in Yorcia or have ever had issues dispelling Kurma when Delve came out.
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,542
    Quote Originally Posted by Babekeke View Post
    I should imagine that RUN with lux x3 and pflug will resist it. Heck I can resist death, so surely dispel is resistable? I'll have to test it and get back to you.
    I doubt it. I rarely resist dispel with fealty up

    Anyways though there is a bit of inherent imbalance when a monster can take off 15 buffs from everyone in range yet players are reduced to dispelling 1 buff on 1 mob at a time... maybe a limit to how many can be removed or take away the aoeing
    (0)
    Last edited by dasva; 07-23-2014 at 03:04 PM.

  8. #8
    Player Damane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    715
    Character
    Damane
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Demonjustin View Post
    This also depends on the job though. Take for instance a job like RDM who's entirely dependant on buffs but can have all 15+ buffs it casts on itself dispelled at once in a single attack, the only buffs that make it at all comparable to any sort of frontline job or give it a defense against it's enemy. If dispel were more balanced, something along the line of 3 buffs max and if it had a much lower chance of selecting certain buffs such as Composure that would count as 2 or 3 buffs, then I'd be ok with it. The fact all buffs are equal in the eyes of dispel and that all are able to be displayed in a single attack are both things that in my opinion make it completely overpowered against some jobs. That on top of the fact that even the lowest leveled of monsters seem to have little problem dispelling my buffs even though I'm more than 50 levels above them supposedly just goes to show that it's level of MAcc is far higher than it should be when cast by mobs, especially when you think of the fact our dispel doesn't seem to share in that benefit otherwise people wouldn't have any issues dispelling the Mandragora in Yorcia or have ever had issues dispelling Kurma when Delve came out.
    tbh tough RDM was never intended as a frontline job and other frontline jobs suffer also immensly when all their buffs get dispelled. Player Dispel works exactly as mob dispel, the differenc is that some mobs have some form of Resist Dispel trait or insane amount of Darkness resist. Besides its not comon for mobs/NMs to have a dispel all buffs moves, the ecxeptions are delve bosses, which is imho totally fine. The game would become even more easier if they could not. I rather deal with dispel moves then with add status: weakened/doom/strip equipment totally moves like in the voidwatch era. They allready restrained themselfs off from weakened/doom/strip gear moves, take away dispel moves/make them easier and there isnt much left you can put on a mob to make it challenging, ecxept to bring it then up to Legion levle and let it hit like a rocket bomb while you need to stun every move then, or make it spam AoE HP down constantly (which would have the same effect).
    (3)

  9. #9
    Player
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,098
    I'm not getting into the RDM Frontline debate... We have Temper, En-spells, a Mythic Sword, our highest skills are in melee weapons, we're on melee gear, we are intended to melee in some form like it or not, that's the end of that conversation right there.

    Delve bosses aren't the only types of mobs that dispel all buffs, Dragons and Gessho alone are two non-Delve NMs off the very top of my head that dispel everything in one hit. Taking away the power to dispel 15+ buffs isn't making them too weak, if anything I'd be ok with 3~5 even, but every single buff is ludicrous.
    (2)

  10. #10
    Player
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,098
    15 buffs isn't immediate, even in capped Fast Cast only casting on myself I'm looking at around a full minute of just casting spells upon myself, let alone if I'm doing Haste II or Refresh II for the party as a whole. I really don't see how not allowing them to dispel more than 20 buffs is really weakening them to the point of making them too easy. We're already going to see a return of Weakness+Doom moves you mentioned earlier, we're already seeing a Gallu in the next Skirmish which are the most overpowered mobs in the entire game's history. These moves are just overkill in my opinion. Yes, GEO has an advantage in this setting, I'm not saying take that away from them because they'd still have a good use but allowing full debuffs regardless is overkill. I see no reason why we can dispel one effect from NMs while they can dispel as many as they please from us without any problems at all and we just have to deal with it. NMs targeting specific things like Adamantoise are fine, NMs doing only 3~5 are also fine, NMs doing full AoE removals of all buffs is completely stupid.
    (4)

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast