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  1. #1
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    317

    Stormwaker Y-700 Head, Haste II and Automaton AI.

    It's fantastic that we were given haste 2! Thank you for that.

    The RDM frame has it placed last on it's priority of enhancements (Meaning if you're fighting anything that can break stoneskin it'll never really get cast) and it doesn't think to overwrite haste 1, meaning if you're using a whm trust it's often just gonna get uncast.

    He has also forgotten how to cast Shell.

    It also does really poor nukes for 200 mp each time, making it a really undesirable frame for a lot of situations.

    Furthermore, I think this would be a good place to mention just how uncooperative automaton AI can be, trusts seem to be able to know when to cast Cure 4 and Cure 5, but this is something our Automatons fail to grasp, so I'll get a Cure 6 when I should be getting a cure 5, and a Cure 5 when I should be receiving a 4. Our AI has remained mostly unchanged, but some aspects of the game have changed a lot.

    Cure 4 got a substantial boost, and with Vivi-valve 1/2 and maybe Foire Churidars is easily able to handle any hp loss up to around 650hp or more.

    Nukes have been changed considerably, so maybe our automatons, especially the rdm, should consider using lower tier nukes for less mp.

    I also think the RDM buff order should be changed, having haste II is going to be more important than having a 350HP stoneskin, and having phalanx is going to be doing more than the Stoneskin over a longer period of time. The order should be: Haste II, Phalanx, Stoneskin.

    Maybe consider adding more RDM enfeebles too. I doubt we'd get much use out of the -50 Eva, since we'd not really be using the rdm frame on anything that needs it, but it would help better reflect the job it's supposed to be.
    (6)
    Last edited by Balloon; 07-08-2014 at 08:45 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    317
    I'm also just going to add some stats in here for automatons, I think they mostly speak for themselves.

    at level 119 my Paladin Frame has around 750-780 Acc, 2 Stabilizers and 3 thunder maneuvers add an insignificant 65, but I'd have to full time 3 thunder manuevers to achieve this which would cannibalize my own DPS

    Ilvl 128 content requires around 1.1k Accuracy to be capping acc, which requires COR or BRD/Acc Gear/Food. Of those 3 we have access to 1.5 of them, food and some pet:Acc gear. Shiromochi +1 is 15% acc, so 862 acc. We'd have to have 238 accuracy to be able to cap hit rate against anything endgame. Pet food was a start, but not sufficient. Beast pets also have around <800 base acc.

    Parameter boosted Dragoons, by the way, have accuracy of 900+. A job a whole lot less reliant on their pet.

    Furthermore, keeping our automatons alive is nigh impossible, they have no way to protect themselves, we have one ability to heal them, and they have low hp. Armor Plates help, but not really. They need some stronger resistance to AoE.

    Now, I see two solutions here, give base pets a big boost, not requiring food. Or, let outside buffs effect our pet. You have proven this is possible with Pet food, and a 'bug' in the past where pets could receive Samba. Then re purpose the pet rolls for COR, because with 2 rolls and no Pianismo type ability it is very unlikely the Pet Acc and Pet Atk rolls are doing anything for anyone. Pets are depressing even in fodder content, our mages are stupid, our melee are weak and our "tank" frame has no way to sustain itself and falls to pieces pretty quickly.

    You cite needing to ensure that balance is kept between the jobs, but Puppetmaster has never really been balanced, nearly every job can do something better. Same with Beastmaster. For jobs that hold such complexity and promise it's so depressing to see them go overlooked so frequently and so aggressively. I mean, you're still putting puppetmaster on mage gear. 8 years later. 8 freaking years.
    (6)
    Last edited by Balloon; 07-11-2014 at 02:21 AM.

  3. #3
    Player Mitruya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    356
    Character
    Mitruya
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    I'm so grateful to you and Shinron for bringing all this to the devs' attention in an articulate way.
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    158
    i wish SE would explain why they put us in mage gear did they think wed be smn's? but i agree its a bummer haste II ius so low prioity at least give us a manuver where we can force a priority
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player Elvyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Sandy
    Posts
    52
    Character
    Elvyn
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    I couldn't like/agree with what you said Balloon any more if I tried XD Haste II was sadly another sidenote for PUP as I doubt any of the Devs use the job as if they did having HII so late on the priority list is glaringly obvious fault. RDM Frame still cast's Shell but it is the last buff, by then you're stoneskin or Phalanx has defiantly worn off.

    All frames need some major regeneration to keep them relevant to current content. But SE (Like 99% of the players on XI) Like the PLD, WHM, BLM, THF, RNG setup and generally ignore the idea of any other job being relevant until the supporters of other jobs start to make a fuss. As for the balance argument, I really don't see it the way SE see's it, after 8 years the only people who do and will play pup are those who remember lvling solo with C H2H and WHM pup only curing. No amount of overpowering will turn it into a bandwagon job (Unless you count Salvage).

    That's just my opinion though, I could be very jaded XD
    (3)
    :O Destiny's Child Reformed!

  6. #6
    Player Tesahade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    45
    Character
    Niflheim
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    So it does seem something is broken or maybe has been for a while. When we first got buffs on pet i used 1 wind manu to force RDM head to cast it since i had a problem with im always castin other crap. it seems that system no longer works idk why but i honestly havent been usin the RDM head at all so idk how long it hasnt been workin
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    317
    Quote Originally Posted by Tesahade View Post
    So it does seem something is broken or maybe has been for a while. When we first got buffs on pet i used 1 wind manu to force RDM head to cast it since i had a problem with im always castin other crap. it seems that system no longer works idk why but i honestly havent been usin the RDM head at all so idk how long it hasnt been workin
    I can't speak for the forcing haste, but I know for a fact it used to cast Shell 5 after Protect 5. It's backwards that it doesn't. I haven't used RDM frame in a long time either, I can't stand it nuking when I'm low on hp, or it's low on mp. Or when I'm full on HP and it's full on MP because its nukes are terrible.
    (0)
    Last edited by Balloon; 07-11-2014 at 10:43 AM.

  8. #8
    Player Tetsujin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    150
    Character
    Tetsujin
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    I typically try to pull out a DAD immediately after Phalanx gets cast in order to get that fast haste.

    Anyway, setting Haste II after Phalanx is clearly supposed to be a counter measure against people trying to quickly give themselves Haste II on the Stormwaker head, then switching out to a different frame. This is understandable but still stupid, given how quickly Stoneskin will peel off, especially when the automaton suddenly decides that a resisted Thunder IV (even with Scanner on!) is more important than buffs.

    Is there a reasonable solution? I don't think so; it's probably gonna stay this way to prevent PUPs from abusing the system.

    Gonna do some testing to see if maneuvers prioritize Haste (why didn't I think of that before?) but I doubt it. Obviously three wind maneuvers does nothing to prioritize haste, but I wanted to check it just in case.

    Edit: Forgot that Haste was already in the same place in the casting priority anyway. Woops.
    (0)
    Last edited by Tetsujin; 07-12-2014 at 04:52 AM.

  9. #9
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    317
    I don't know if it will never change, that's been the order for a while (Stoneskin > Phalanx > Haste) And it suggests that all they did was replace Haste with Haste 2. I don't think it's necessarily a counter measure, I mean, BLU has Haste II, so even if we swapped back to WHM frame it's not exactly broken. In fact, it's a lot of work for a little gain if we have to do it every 3 minutes.

    I mean, Haste II doesn't overwrite Haste I, so it just seems like a sloppy job. I didn't think about DAD for getting Haste II off, but it's still not an effective solution I feel.

    It screams of last minute - Oh yeah let's just add Haste II to where haste I used to be on the frame, and not think about how that'll effect anything.

    I'd like to see all of the frames get a good looking at, BLM Frame is superflous at the minute, Harlequin is too, PLD Frame is eh, and RNG frame needs a damage buff to be in line with the increased WS Damage. Then all the mage frames need an AI adjustment, trusts are doing better than we are, so that's not good.
    (2)

  10. #10
    Player Tetsujin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    150
    Character
    Tetsujin
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    I'll add as a sidenote: I'm surprised people are complaining about Haste II being an afterthought to Stormwaker. I was pleasantly surprised to hear that we got the spell at all -- it's not like we got Bio III, Slow II, or anything else. Even if it was an afterthought, it's a crazy awesome one.
    (0)

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