Gravity Nerf...

[Trangnai]

Greetings,

The physical evasion reduction effect from Distract has been set to a higher value than the original effect of Gravity.

The main effect of Gravity is reduced movement speed, but there were a lot of monsters that were resistant to it, which created situations where it was hard to use this spell in order to reduce evasion.

As we created a new, specialized magic spell with an effect of reduced evasion, instead of making adjustments to these spells based on situations where they are stacked, we decided to remove the evasion reduction effect from Gravity and boost this effect for Distract to make these spells easier to use.

I think most of us understand that. While Distract is better then gravity ever was for Evasion reduction. I think, while we see how it is off of the original topic. That Distract and Distract II don't really large enough of a gap to make rdm stand out.

And so much for leveling from 24-35 without using that acc food? I doubt anyone leveling rdm even thinks of using gravity for its evasion reduction. As it never said it reduced evasion in its description.

I think what most rdms were hoping for with this update was something to let us back into content, but once again any support or healing class can just /rdm and fill that role.

Sometimes I think this game would be more balanced without a subjob system. but at the same time it would remove one of the unique features that keeps people playing it.

[Ophannus]

Distract I should be set at -20 Evasion when RDM is set as a support job. No reason to give WHM BLM and SCH any more benefit over /RDM than before except for Frazzle/Flurry.

[Rwolf]

-_- I called it in the RDM Update thread. I was really concerned this would happen and lo and behold, SE continues the tradition of making Tier II not noticeable stronger on its own than anything accessible by other jobs.

I agree with all said so far. Honestly RDM needs a complete upheaval of Enhancing & Enfeebling Magic to scale potency/duration with skill. So that even though others have access, it's not as potent as RDM who has the highest skill in both.

All of its Tier II merit spells need to be removed and added as scrolls (not just RDM really). As this was based on Level 75 cap and cripples the selection of Enhancing/Enfeebling magic. I'd rather see Tier II personally be more all-encompassing things like Enhancing & Enfeebling Magic potency or duration.

Also either we should have access to things like Afflatus Solace/Misery and Yonin/Innin, or Convert should be nerfed/removed from being set as a subjob. I'm all for buffing instead of nerfing, or a combination of both; giving access to all subjob abilities but with a degraded effect like Sublimation, Sneak/Trick Attack, etc.

[Sp1cyryan]

Greetings,

The physical evasion reduction effect from Distract has been set to a higher value than the original effect of Gravity.

The main effect of Gravity is reduced movement speed, but there were a lot of monsters that were resistant to it, which created situations where it was hard to use this spell in order to reduce evasion.

As we created a new, specialized magic spell with an effect of reduced evasion, instead of making adjustments to these spells based on situations where they are stacked, we decided to remove the evasion reduction effect from Gravity and boost this effect for Distract to make these spells easier to use.

They don't seem to understand what is actually a nerf and what is a completely beneficial for everyone.

Thank you for the new spells. They all came out rather balanced and beneficial.

Perhaps you guys could please look at gravity II now that the evasion is no longer part of it?

Also a quick question, but is this change for all sorts of gravity? If a monster uses a move that grants gravity to players does that also no longer deal with evasion or is this just related to players?

[Ophannus]

RDM got hit hard with level cap. All of it's unique spells and abilities became subbable with no scaline or nerfing. Convert? Full strength. Refresh? Full potency. Haste? same as RDM main. But when RDM wants to sub Scholar? Half potency Sublimation, reduced strategems, no Light Arts/Dark Arts bonus for Helices or Regens, nerfed Helix duration. Sub White Mage? No Afflatus Misery or Afflatus Solace, sub NIN? 3 shadows on Utsusemi: Ni instead of 4, sub Bard? 1 song.

Almost every sub gets reduced power except for /RDM which gives WHM, BLM, SCH, GEO and SMN a huge boost to flexibility. If a RDM subs GEO they get terribly weak Geomancy because no Handbells and halved Geo skill. If a RDM subs SMN they get a level 49 Avatar. But if a GEO or SCH sub /RDM? Full strength Convert, full strength everything. Either nerf some of /RDM's abilities to make RDM main more unique, or boost the effectiveness of other support jobs. Why can't we get Afflatus Solace/Misery/Yonin/Innin but everyone and their mother can get Convert. At least give RDM traits that reduce the HP tradeoff for Convert similar to Souleater's traits.

[Glamdring]

I'm with all those saying anything that can work off a sub means rdm gets nothing viable in end-game. The thing is, I wasn't aware rdm had been designed to be only an end-game sub-job, like dnc for the most part. the spells with tier 2 that rdm gets for being over 49 need to be at LEAST twice as strong (if not more for spells where it needs to scale into end-game mob resistances) for the utility of the job as a main job to even be considered. that means 3 options: a. move the tier 1 of all the new spells to level 50 or higher, b. weaken the tier 1 to half the strength of the tier 2 version, with the same penalty as MP gets when derived from a subjob only (approx. 1/3 of the level 99 score) so that anyone casting off /rdm gets 1/3 the potency of the tier 2 spell off a rdm main, but a rdm main casting the tier 1 gets half the tier 2 strength, or c. get rid of the 2 tiers, create only 1 and make them only learnable post level 50.

And yes, our JA are ridiculously useful /rdm for other jobs, while their JA don't add much to rdm main. That utility needs to be severely nerfed. While I think having spells scale to our skill levels will help it won't be much, other jobs can get close enough to our skill level (especially with merit/gear/food choices) that their enfeebling (as an example) is "good enough" considering all the other elements they bring to the table. Sorry to dump this into your lap SE but the problem WAS created by YOUR means of scaling the OTHER jobs that can fill the rdm niche into end-game. Look back over the last several years at all the various "fix rdm job" threads, there are plenty of viable solutions presented, often by players who actually want to play red mage, and often based on the exact reason they were denied a party slot in an end-game fight. you can't get much more relevant information on how rdm is perceived in the game now than that. Play with them, kick them around the water cooler. Here's an idea, you all play the game according to an earlier post from Camate or Bayonne iirc, well get off the test server and on to a player server and refuse to play any job but red mage, when you get denied a party slot, ASK WHY. and just for giggles, try it during North American prime playing time. It's a cultural thing, Americans tend to gripe differently than Japanese people, so you may hear a different set of gripes than you get on here, especially if a forum griper is concerned with being banned and so is "pulling their punches" so to speak. And I'll apologize in advance for the insults some of you may get to what you thought were good ideas, but may set off a tirade in a social LS or the like-just because something is a rant doesn't mean it isn't accurate.

and all of this commentary is coming from someone who doesn't want to play rdm much in end-game but only leveled it in the 1st place to a. clear some inventory space occupied by rdm-only spell scrolls, and b. wanted to skill both offensive and defensive magics fairly high before leveling blm or whm. my friends DO want to rdm main end-game, but they aren't allowed to unless they want to solo; I'd like to see that change, for their sakes.

[Trangnai]

RDM got hit hard with level cap. All of it's unique spells and abilities became subbable with no scaline or nerfing. Convert? Full strength. Refresh? Full potency. Haste? same as RDM main. But when RDM wants to sub Scholar? Half potency Sublimation, reduced strategems, no Light Arts/Dark Arts bonus for Helices or Regens, nerfed Helix duration. Sub White Mage? No Afflatus Misery or Afflatus Solace, sub NIN? 3 shadows on Utsusemi: Ni instead of 4, sub Bard? 1 song.

Almost every sub gets reduced power except for /RDM which gives WHM, BLM, SCH, GEO and SMN a huge boost to flexibility. If a RDM subs GEO they get terribly weak Geomancy because no Handbells and halved Geo skill. If a RDM subs SMN they get a level 49 Avatar. But if a GEO or SCH sub /RDM? Full strength Convert, full strength everything. Either nerf some of /RDM's abilities to make RDM main more unique, or boost the effectiveness of other support jobs. Why can't we get Afflatus Solace/Misery/Yonin/Innin but everyone and their mother can get Convert. At least give RDM traits that reduce the HP tradeoff for Convert similar to Souleater's traits.

I can agree with this as a whole. Every Subjob suffers a weakness that makes the main more desirable, except for rdm. RDM gets limited in what it can do and how it can use subjobs, and even how it can use its skills as a whole as dependent on the games system.

RDM is a hybrid support class, but its strengths are also a weakness in a game with so many classes and a system where you can mix and match to give you the best possible choices. While its a pro for certain roles RDM can preform, its also a weakness as everyone else has access to those roles as well, as long as they combine well with the primary role.

[Return1]

The power of a fully buffed Distract II is the equivalent of a 4.5min feint is it not? Seems pretty good to me.

Wouldn't RDM replace WHM for things you'd bring RNGs to now? Flurry II seemed pretty amazing, Dia III is always great, and Distract II is extremely potent.

[Sasaraixx]

Will the effects of Distract II be changed in the next update to be higher than currently? As of right now Distract II is only a small bit better than that of Distract itself, this along with the fact they don't seem to be based off of INT in the same way spells like Paralyze or Slow are with MND will result in this spell being only slightly strong when used with RDM mains. This as a result means jobs like SCH or WHM who can sub RDM without much of a problem will now be even more powerful and RDM's new spells won't be unique enough to merit an invite over them in the eyes of many players.

You have to keep in mind that RDM has access to more "enhances enfeebling potency" gear and has Saboteur. The numbers over at BG show that a RDM w/ the proper gear and Sab can get -108 eva and have it last for 4.5 minutes. The best a SCH or WHM would be able to do is -36. I don't think the base spells need to be adjusted at all.

And as someone else mentioned, RDM really has a claim to be the best healer in RNG parties now. I really think we need to see how things play out over the next couple of weeks.

[Tennotsukai]

I feel this gravity nerf really sucks more for blu since we received a new gravity spell and not an evasion down spell. In fact, we have no decent evasion downs, not counting infrasonics.