Dragon Jug Pets

[Glamdring]

@WoW, actually, quite a few of those were discussed awhile back when they actually polled us about what jugs we would like added, Scorp ALMOST made it, and Ruszor and Opo were under serious discussion (I was holding out for a Hecteyes, I wanted 1 good jug for magic mobs). as I recall they shut down Behemoth for some reason. and we actually have an adamantoise, he just capped at 99 and didn't have a very long useful life in the game (not to mention being STUPID expensive).

[WoW]

Yea^^ i recall the ruszor, opo, and scorpion being mentioned; secretly, I hoped they would have released the others by now . Raphie was one of our better pets imo^^ He was missing headbutt and earth breathe though . Originally, i thought he was missing Testudo Tremor, but that is a ferromantoise move; one of those would be awesome.

Hopefully they take their time with the new implied batch. SE appears to have something against damaging monsters.

I am still salty by the announcement of no dragons, considering we can charm one. I am not entirely convinced that Naul -esque pets are a no-go. That explanation only pertained to bst, because other jobs specialize in an overlapping fashion. Also, if they announce some crappy repeat pets, that will suck even more.

Also, i don't see why certain monsters are off limits/shutdown, blu has access to legendary monster moves, thunderbolt, absolute terror, etc. In essence, specialization can overlap, not for bst tho. Thanks for the clarification SE .

[WoW]

Bump.

There appears to be no valid argument against a dragon pet. I have a few question for SE;

1) If dragons are monster family that is off limits, then why are puks charmable?

2) Why were dragoons referenced when a naul, shadow dragon, and a puk function completely different than a domesticated wyvern (Large hp pool, no healing breathes, ws on their own as opposed to when the master does)?

3) How is it that Blu has dragon elemental breathes, but giving bst a dragon pet is infringing drg territory?

4) A plethora of jobs infringe upon one anothers territory, do they not?

5) What does giving dragoons a bigger wyvern has to do with this? Just give them a bigger wyvern? Most likely, the pet would still resemble the original wyvern due to healing breathes, utility, etc.

6) Pups specialize in automotons, but we all have access to them, via trust.

These dragons have nothing to do with dragoon.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Categoryragons

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Naul

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Puks

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Bahamut

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Shinryu

Also, most jobs can just /bst and use any charmable monster they wish, while we cannot /drg for a wyvern. All jobs can use pet food. Monsters are owned by nobody. The day a drg receives an Ajattara, will be the day they are a full on two handed pet job with a controllable pet. If you want to give dragoons an Bravo -esque pet, then give it to them. However, drgs have nothing to do with the aforementioned dragons (Shown in the wiki pages).

[Mitruya]

I think it comes down to the simple answer of ... size matters. *wink*
IMO, it has nothing to do with giving DRGs dragon-family attacks (which we have little control over anyway). We just want our baby wyvern to grow a little. So if SE has no plans to change that, then they'd never hear the end of it if they gave BSTs Nauls or whatever.

Unless I missed something, BLU gets a total of eight moves from the dragon family, two of which are part of Unbridled Learning. (Out of five elemental breaths, only three are from actual dragon mobs.) I'd like to emphasize again that BLU does not generally utilize much of these. Breath attacks are useless whether they come from a jug, a BLU, or a DRG's wyvern.
I think perhaps White Wind and Absolute Terror get the most usage, unless someone does a lot of VW/Abyssea proccing (Radiant Breath).
DRGs don't care that BLUs have these spells. I don't think DRGs would care if BSTs had dragon mobs with dragon attacks either, because DRG is not a true pet job and the wyvern is a completely different animal with a different function.

[Balloon]

A puk pet would be cool, though, Zephr Mantle is nice, has some coolish tp moves.

Has some unique abilities like absorbtion of damage and regain/instant tp.

Low delay, highish attack. I'd love to see a Puk.

[WoW]

I think it comes down to the simple answer of ... size matters. *wink*
IMO, it has nothing to do with giving DRGs dragon-family attacks (which we have little control over anyway). We just want our baby wyvern to grow a little. So if SE has no plans to change that, then they'd never hear the end of it if they gave BSTs Nauls or whatever.

Unless I missed something, BLU gets a total of eight moves from the dragon family, two of which are part of Unbridled Learning. (Out of five elemental breaths, only three are from actual dragon mobs.) I'd like to emphasize again that BLU does not generally utilize much of these. Breath attacks are useless whether they come from a jug, a BLU, or a DRGs wyvern.
I think perhaps White Wind and Absolute Terror get the most usage, unless someone does a lot of VW/Abyssea proccing (Radiant Breath).

A few things, firstly, usage is invalid; it just emphasizes the "Since it is not effective, it does not matter" mentality I was alluding to earlier, as it pertains to effective pets (Puk vs Naul).

I just have one question for you if i may, are you aware that bst can charm puks, some of which are bigger than a galka, naul, and domesticated wyvern (the ones in the tree)? How do you feel about that? (Bolded to highlight question, not for emphasis). Also, the majority of monsters in vanadiel are bigger than domesticated wyverns, including the majority of our jugs.

This brings me to my point, there is no valid argument against dragon jugs, which is why there are no more dev responses or other drgs gathering around this. Size, specialization, and breathe attacks are the arguments I heard so far and they are all contradictory.

Charmable
http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Puk

Contradiction.
http://www.bg-wiki.com/index.php/Kindred%27s_Vouivre

[Mitruya]

Whether BLUs use the spells or not, I don't think DRGs care. I play both jobs and never felt that they overlap. In fact, I haven't even bothered to learn all those dragon-mob moves. I don't have space for pointless spells.
I play BST too (used to anyway) and never felt that BLU overlapped with it either. I never intentionally set killer traits and no lvl99 BLU is going to have those low-level combinations in their spellset.
I don't think you got my joke about size. DRAGOONS WANT A BIGGER WYVERN. Period. End of story. It's not about the TP-moves. It's cosmetic, really. You start the job with a baby and it never gets bigger like Bravo.
I don't care if BSTs can charm puks. I don't care if BSTs have ginormous pets. But if you wave around your ... Naul (lol) while we still have a baby, then yeah, we'd be a bit miffed. Not because of the attacks.
I didn't design the game, man. I never had access to Dyna-Xarc and had no idea about the Kindred BSTs and their Bravo-esque pets until this thread. Sure yeah, technically a Beastmaster should be able to charm or summon just about anything. But it seems that game lore is the valid answer SE is trying to give, and it would just look odd for BSTs to have dragons when that kinda sorta is what sets DRGs apart. (Why even play DRG at that point, unless you just needed piercing damage?)
I think the fact that people keep arguing about the lore means that SE will never do it, unless maybe they make a bigger model for the pet wyvern.
In fact, they could tie-in the lore of Achtelle and the Dragoons of Adoulin, give DRGs a new wyvern model or something, and clarify the lore so the other dragon-mobs would be separate and up for grabs as charmable/jugs.

At the risk of sounding contradictory, I want to clarify that I know a dragon jug would function differently than a pet wyvern, just like automaton Trusts are different from my controlled pet. But there is like a plethora of great ideas you gave that SE should pull from, so I guess some of us ask why take away what sort of sets us apart? Why bother to pick up the DRG job at all if you can have a more powerful pet on BST? If you want to use a polearm you can just play SAM in that case, you know? (DRGs can't keep up with SAMs, and have just as much chance as being invited as a BST.)
I know you're saying "but BLU has dragon-moves and killer traits and better TP abilities compared to Ready moves" and all I can say is yeah SE needs to throw BST a bone. BST and BLU and DRG may have some shared traits but they do not play the same.

[Balloon]

I think there's some overlap in those sentiments, too Mitruya.

I'm not a bst, I used to be, first job to 75 etc etc.

They're adding another sheep. I am 24 levels over 75, and 43 theoretical levels over 75. I would expect that my ability to charm beasts would scale with my charisma, I can understand that at 75, maybe I don't have the charisma to coerce a giant behemoth into my command, but at 119 I should.

Another frame for automaton would be nice too, something a little more intelligent, something a little more sentient. That guy in the AF quests was terrible with his automaton, but it could decide what to do by itself without command. I shouldn't have to equip an attachment for my auto to understand I need a cure.

[Olor]

I would love a puk jug. There is no excuse not to give us one. Nauls are not charmable so... that's ... ok. But puks are so we should at least get that. Frankly I do not want another sheep, crab, tiger, rabbit... SO TIRED of getting SO MANY repeats.

[WoW]

A puk jug opens up the possibility of dragon jugs, which is the only reason I welcome them. Otherwise, puks seem horrible; as it pertains to dd potential. Alot of our jugs are not charmable, but nonetheless, are implemented as pets.

The tigers were decent, hit hard on lesser content, but did crap ready move damage on stuff that mattered. I was on the no repeat bandwagon as-well, however, rabbits. sheep, and crabs are not bad pets. Granted there are cooler/more frightening monsters out there. Wild ginseng is nice. Rabbits are not as cool as say.. a manticore, but i imagine a rabbit in their native form would destroy a slow attacking manticore in the dd department. Not many beast could hang with a lapinion save a lynx, opo, or ram.

Some of the repeats could equate to awesome pets; lynx, beetles, hippos, and crabs are nasty in their strongest forms. The move removal and the non-release of sub-species (That mattered) is the only beef I have with the repeats. 5 crabs and not one was a barnacle variation with megascissors/venom shower. 2 Coeurls and no pounce, frenzied rage, and gleam attack. Personally, i would take another coeurl with those moves over most un-released beasts; frenzied rage > pounce is nasty^^

There are not many great dd monsters out there imo. To SE's credit, they have been releasing newer guys recently, but there are pretty sub-par; ibuki, boar, and the chapuli. All I am saying is that there are a ton of crappy unreleased jugs, but also, there some crappy released pets. Hopefully SE release some damaging monsters.

I would not mind repeat sub-species of beetles, lynx, sheep, and crabs; that is about it. The rest were poor monster choices imo.