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  1. #11
    Player Lithera's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    733
    Character
    Lithera
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    BST Lv 1
    If not a reduction on the timer then a ja that acts like Deus Ex Automata where we can pop out a weaker wyvern. Yeah I know a weaker one will die faster but it's better than having to wait 20 mins.
    (5)

  2. #12
    Player Skeelo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    12
    Character
    Skeero
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    I would like something that restricts the use of breaths all together and gives us a hasso'ish effect or berserk effect. Its sad i spent 300mil on a weapon and still have to give it everything i have to put out as much dmg as weaker sam/drks/wars/mnks.
    (1)

  3. #13
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    1,401
    Wyvern breaths can't be made too powerful and they likely won't be buffed too much anyway. Whereas a BST or SMN's abilities do a lot of damage, they're tied down to Ready/Sic/BP timers. Wyvern Breaths can be spammed nonstop as long as you're weapon skilling(which, if you're well buffed, is every few seconds). They said if they split Jump timers, they'd have to raise the recast of all of them back to pre-adjustment level. That means:
    Jump/Spirit Jump 60s→90s
    High Jump/Soul Jump 120s → 180s
    Super Jump 180s → 300s

    Is that what you'd want?

    It's high time DRG receives a self buff JA. Make it a 'stance' so it lasts longer(stances tend to last longer but have penalties; compare stance durations like Hasso and Composure to nonstance buffs like Warcry and Focus). Something like Attack +10% Attack Speed+10% Accuracy+15, penalty is need Wyvern alive and when used negates the use of Wyvern elemental breaths(but can still use with smiting). The buff would also apply to Wyverns. The hidden gem of an ability that buffs DRG+Wyvern attack/haste/acc, while restricting use of breaths, is that if the Wyvern is hitting faster and more often, they gain TP faster. Faster TP means we can Spirit Link and absorb that TP and it wont be reset to 0 every 2 seconds to be spent on a 64 damage Flame Breath. So Wyvern's elemental breaths are restricted, we can use Spirit Link offensively when they have 150-200% TP to self skillchain or throw out another Stardiver in quick succession.

    Need more traits too. Remove Critical Defense Bonus and give DRG a Critical Attack Bonus. Can the Devs explain their justification for giving DRG, a melee damage dealer job "Critical Defense Bonus"? Why does Dark Knight get Critical Attack Bonus and not Dragoon? Dragoon has 2 critical weapon skills and 2 Jumps that rely on critical damage. Dark Knight has not a single critical weapon skill for Great Sword, and Scythe only has Vorpal Scythe. Why do they have Critical Attack Bonus and Dragoon has Critical Defense Bonus? Dragoons are not tanks and Crit.Def Bonus is such a strange and out of place trait. Perhaps it was a mistake?


    Should also make Job Points that reduce Call Wyvern timer by 10 seconds per point. Doesn't seem like much, but when capped 30/30, would be a 5 minute reduction; so 15min recast. To be honest if Call Wyvern was a lower recast, they'd have to undo all the changes they implemented to make Wyverns live longer: Double Spirit Link's recast time, halve its potency, remove it's regen effect; remove Wyvern's Damage Taken-40%; reduce the multiplier on Steady Wing from *3 to *2, etc...

    Fly High is actually a lot better than I thought it was however, one buff I would ask for, and it's a long shot, is: When Fly High is used, can it PLEASE reset "Call Wyvern" recast? If Wyvern dies and is a long way off, we can't use Spirit Surge, but if Fly High is up and Fly High was adjusted to reset Call Wyvern, we could use it in a pinch to reset it! To expound further: lets say I'm about to fight a boss as DRG. Everyone is using their SP's, MNK, WAR,SAMs all using their SP's As a DRG I'm kind of screwed if my Wyvern is dead, I can only use Fly High, and Fly High is very weak as a SP ability without a Wyvern because Jump and High Jump don't give much TP.

    So either let Fly High reset the "Call Wyvern" timer, or under "Fly High" can Spirit Jump and Soul Jump get their TP/Crit bonuses(even if Wyvern is not present)? Spirit Surge gives a special bonus to Jump High Jump and Super Jump, Fly High should give the special Wyvern bonuses(the 100% crit and 2x/3x TP) at least to Spirit Jump and Soul Jump so the SP can be useful even without a Wyvern. When Wyvern is dead or used for Spirit Surge, Fly High becomes a lot weaker because Spirit Jump and Soul Jump do not get their bonus TP and critical damage without a Wyvern but Fly High, as a 1-hour ability should grant us those Wyvern bonuses for Spirit and Soul Jump!
    (3)
    Last edited by Ophannus; 06-29-2014 at 04:23 PM.

  4. #14
    Player Mitruya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    356
    Character
    Mitruya
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    Should also make Job Points that reduce Call Wyvern timer by 10 seconds per point. Doesn't seem like much, but when capped 30/30, would be a 5 minute reduction; so 15min recast. To be honest if Call Wyvern was a lower recast, they'd have to undo all the changes they implemented to make Wyverns live longer: Double Spirit Link's recast time, halve its potency, remove it's regen effect; remove Wyvern's Damage Taken-40%; reduce the multiplier on Steady Wing from *3 to *2, etc...
    I don't understand this reasoning. It's already been mentioned several times that when a DRG enters endgame content (if they get in at all), the wyvern dies. None of those buffs help, why would they nerf them to give us a reduced recast? SMN BST and PUP don't have that kind of restriction. Also, a 15 minute recast is still too long.
    (3)

  5. #15
    Player Babekeke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitruya View Post
    I don't understand this reasoning. It's already been mentioned several times that when a DRG enters endgame content (if they get in at all), the wyvern dies. None of those buffs help, why would they nerf them to give us a reduced recast? SMN BST and PUP don't have that kind of restriction. Also, a 15 minute recast is still too long.
    This is certainly true of SMN. A native -50% PDT and can be chosen for their ability to have a high resistance to a certain element. All that on top of a really fast recast timer!!
    (1)

  6. #16
    Player Rwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    373
    Character
    Rwolf
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    I don't use my DRG very often to make a huge post about what it needs but I agree on Call Wyvern recast being too long. No other pet job has this penalty. While DRG isn't as much a pet job as the others, it's still a pet job.

    I don't think any of the efforts to make Wyverns last longer need to be removed in order to compensate. Other pets are way more durable than Wyverns and still have a slew of pet abilities/job abilities/traits to increase that durability. Avatars have a native -50% damage and they are the most disposable pet of them all. Not to mention the other pet jobs get Stout Servant. With area of effect becoming more and more prevalent in today's endgame. I don't see anything personally wrong with DRG getting more of a boost.
    (1)

  7. #17
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,401
    That was their reasoning, not mine. Let me play devil's advocate though: Their logic is, when the Wyvern is dead, DRG is still a competent damage dealer(relative to PUP BST SMN), we have an A+ skill in a two-handed weapon that's 2nd or 3rd highest base damage and pretty decent weapon skills and such. A BST without a pet is a single wielding axe WAR DD without berserk or anything, a SMN without an Avatar is just a 99 mage with /49 WHM spells, a PUP without an Auto is a less accurate MNK without Impetus and poorer stats. DRG is less reliant on pets than the other pet jobs. That being said, Wyverns are actually pretty robust if you're smart. The only content my Wyvern gets rocked on is AA Elvaan and delve mega bosses. And on delve megabosses, everyone's eating a lot of damage, not just the DRG/Wyvern.

    BST pets don't have the restriction because they have to buy their pets. Automatons can be resummoned quickly because all of PUP's JAs involve the auto, all of SMN's abilities involve the Avatar. Do BST, PUP, SMN have JA that don't involve their pets? DRG has Jump, High Jump, Spirit Jump, Soul Jump, Super Jump, Angon.

    01 Spirit Surge PET
    01 Call Wyvern PET
    05 Ancient Circle
    10 Jump
    25 Spirit Link PET
    35 High Jump
    50 Super Jump
    75 (Merit) Deep Breathing PET
    75 (Merit) Angon
    77 Spirit Jump
    85 Soul Jump
    87 Dragon Breaker
    96 Fly High
    BST
    01 Familiar PET
    01 Charm PET
    10 Gauge
    12 Reward PET
    23 Call Beast PET
    30 Tame
    75 (Merit) Feral Howl
    75 (Merit) Killer Instinct PET
    96 Unleash PET

    1 Astral Flow PET
    50 Elemental Siphon PET
    87 Mana Cede PET
    96 Astral Conduit PET

    01 Overdrive PET
    01 Activate PET
    05 Deus Ex Automata PET
    15 Repair PET
    30 Maintenance PET
    75 (Merit) Role Reversal PET
    75 (Merit) Ventriloquy PET
    79 Tactical Switch PET
    95 Cooldown Doesn't require a pet but Burden doesn't hurt the PUP, only Automaton
    96 Heady Artifice PET
    Compared to the other pet jobs, only a few of our JA rely on a pet while other jobs rely more or less completely on their pet, that's why our recast timer is higher, also we don't spend MP or Gil to keep our pets and PUP gets a free pet with a fast recast but they sacrifice main job competence(B h2h skill, no main job damage buffs or JA, poorer armor selection)

    I feel as though if DRG gets a stronger Wyvern and a faster recast, they'll just turn us into polearm PUPs, drop our Polearm Skill to B+, maybe nerf Lance damage, take us off Heavy Armor and increase timers on Jumps, since now a larger percent of our damage will come from the wyvern. I'm basing this off their pattern of pet job desigm and the best comparison would be PUP since like DRG, their pet is free unlike SMN and BST. A free pet seems to equate to a gimped master.

    The tradeoff is we have A+ Skill, job abilities and a 2hr that don't involve a pet(compare to SMN BST PUP), heavy armor, 2nd best base DMG weapon type, and decent traits(Acc/ATK bonus better than what BST gets for melee) but in exchange our Wyvern is free but in is uncontrollable(just copies us, we can't make it stay/heel/retreat) contributes less damage and is more fragile.

    A DRG's damage ratio with our pet on 6man regular content(not counting BRD swap zergs) is something like 80%DRG/20%Wyvern; 0%SMN/100%Avatar; 60%PUP/40%Automaton; 0%BST/100%Jug Pet. Because the DRG is so much stronger than the Wyvern, to just buff the Wyvern's recast and abilities greatly could make us too strong perhaps. Actually when I was doing ADL runs the other day I realized how strong our Wyvern was made after the last adjustment to it. I was hitting fodder in Dynamis for ~700ish, my Wyvern was hitting for 600-620. And since the Wyvern attacks faster than I do, it was almost like Dual Wielding another Lance. Granted, on AA fights, it's a lot less, I'll hit for 500ish per swing and the Wyvern will hit for 160-180, but when you add the DoT together it's still pretty high for white damage compared to say a DRK or SAM's white damage. The pitfall is our WS damage since we have no WS increasing abilities(only Angon; which actually buffs everyone's WS damage but the parse will just reflect everyone else's damage being higher than ours and doesn't take into account how much extra damage everyone else's WS is due to us using Angon!)
    (0)
    Last edited by Ophannus; 06-30-2014 at 12:06 AM.

  8. #18
    Player Rwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    373
    Character
    Rwolf
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Sincerely, if you start off by saying "To be honest if Call Wyvern..." then it is your reasoning. It might also be the development team's reasoning, but you've made it your own by tieing it to your own honesty. Not a jab at your integrity, I just felt the need that since you started your post of that way, to see how your prior post came off when reading it.

    DRG is a stronger DD without its pet and I see the ratio you're trying to preserve in your opinion of what is balanced. And in the grand scheme, I don't disagree that DRG itself should be the majority of power in the job over other pet jobs. It's an aspect of what makes the job unique. However, with DRG lagging way behind other damage dealers. I don't think it's a bad thing for DRG to get a boost, especially via wyvern survivability. Also given that a good number of their job abilities are boosted or rely on the wyvern's survival.

    In my opinion, I feel a dragoon shouldn't have to be without their wyvern for a prolonged amount of time unless it's intentional. It shouldn't be a case of well DRG has A+ skills and normal jumps to fall back on so they are good to spend up to 20 minutes without it. Because honestly without the wyvern they are even more further behind other damage dealers output and utility. So while I see you're trying to balance it on the scale of pet vs master. I'm looking at it on the grander scale as class vs class.
    (3)

  9. #19
    Player Babekeke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    2,273
    It's hard to say that our trade-off is that we have A+ skill in polearm, as I'm fairly certain that a SAM using eminent lance will out-damage all but a mythic DRG, with or without a wyvern.

    I'd be interested to see the results if anyone has a well-geared SAM and an eminent lance (or can buy one).

    The main thing going for us right now and has been for a while, is 25% damage bonus vs mobs weak to piercing. If what I'm suggesting is correct, then we've lost that to SE's little love-child again. (It happens every now and again, every time that SAM gets it's hands on a half-decent polearm. Tomoe at 75, Erebus's Lance at 85 cap, then Draca Couse all the way to 99. now in ilvl, it's Eminent Lance. If they ever put SAM onto a 119 weapon, DRG is as good as dead.)
    (3)
    Last edited by Babekeke; 06-30-2014 at 02:11 AM.

  10. #20
    Player Mitruya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    356
    Character
    Mitruya
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Hm, well I think we can all agree that DRG needs a boost and a lower recast, while hoping they don't do some kind of nerf as a trade-off excuse.
    (1)

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