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  1. #21
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    Jul 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babekeke View Post
    SE have already said that they don't want the game to be played by mindless DDs that run in and do as much damage as they can until they die because the tanks can't hold hate. They are trying to include some sort of strategy in this game. As such, a fix where hate at least only bounces when the tank takes damage, is better than it is now where the tank only has hate immediately after hitting the mob or doing some sort of action to get hate.

    As it is now, you have 3 options:

    1) use a tank and create a strategy that allows your tank to hold hate, by having the DDs turn or drop back occasionally, use SCH SP and/or THFs to control hate from other DDs.

    2) use a tank but have it there only to keep the mob occupied when all the DDs die and wait for unweaken due to them getting too much hate.

    3) don't bother with a tank at all because your DDs are going to have hate most of the time anyway.
    Random bouncing isn't a fix. There is still no enmity control it's just going willy nilly. Just with potential larger gaps between the bounces though that is somewhat dependent on how fast you can get an actual in after taking dmg. There is no strategy in that. It's barely a bandaid. Sure it might be "better" than it is now. But if you are going to bother fix something why half ass it and still leave it mostly broken?

    The whole enmity system needs an overhaul. It was based on level 75 mobs and mob growth that is totally out of whack with todays mobs. You shouldn't automatically cap enmity after doing 1% dmg to a mob. A simple overhaul of the dmg enmity formulas to make them more like the dmg taken enmity loss formulas would accomplish this. There would be strategy and enmity gearing. A tank could conceivable keep hate off of DDs if he was good enough and kept on it and geared for it etc. And if your tank sucked it wont and your DDs will eat it. Kinda like back before we were constantly capped for those who remember using tanks on old mobs back in the day
    (5)

  2. #22
    Player
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    Mar 2011
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    Crusade is useful on PLD for the first few min of a fight. +30 Enmity means you only need 70 enmity in gear to cap(getting to +100 with burtgang was a bit tedious). The cast time is a bit long, about 2.5 seconds but it lasts for 6 or 7 minutes I think(I dunno I use Shabti Body), but it lasts long enough such that it should stay on for the entirety of most fights(unless its dispelled).
    (0)

  3. #23
    Player Babekeke's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Windurst
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    Crusade is useful on PLD for the first few min of a fight. +30 Enmity means you only need 70 enmity in gear to cap(getting to +100 with burtgang was a bit tedious). The cast time is a bit long, about 2.5 seconds but it lasts for 6 or 7 minutes I think(I dunno I use Shabti Body), but it lasts long enough such that it should stay on for the entirety of most fights(unless its dispelled).
    From what I could tell when testing naked on RUN with no buffs up, it's 3 secs cast time and 5 mins duration. You should get 5:30 with Shabti, the same as RUN gets with Relic legs. But yeah it's best to use it before the fight starts so you shouldn't need to recast. And if the fight lasts longer than 5 mins, well everyone's capped on hate by then anyway.
    (0)

  4. #24
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    Jul 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    Crusade is useful on PLD for the first few min of a fight. +30 Enmity means you only need 70 enmity in gear to cap(getting to +100 with burtgang was a bit tedious). The cast time is a bit long, about 2.5 seconds but it lasts for 6 or 7 minutes I think(I dunno I use Shabti Body), but it lasts long enough such that it should stay on for the entirety of most fights(unless its dispelled).
    It's definitely 5. Which is more than long enough to cap. Weird thing is the spell itself though appears to be more or less hateless. Probably would've preferred something that wasn't a buff but gave a straight +2000 CE or something
    (0)

  5. #25
    Player Dale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    802
    Character
    Jeremi
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Random bouncing isn't a fix. There is still no enmity control it's just going willy nilly. Just with potential larger gaps between the bounces though that is somewhat dependent on how fast you can get an actual in after taking dmg. There is no strategy in that. It's barely a bandaid. Sure it might be "better" than it is now. But if you are going to bother fix something why half ass it and still leave it mostly broken?

    The whole enmity system needs an overhaul. It was based on level 75 mobs and mob growth that is totally out of whack with todays mobs. You shouldn't automatically cap enmity after doing 1% dmg to a mob. A simple overhaul of the dmg enmity formulas to make them more like the dmg taken enmity loss formulas would accomplish this. There would be strategy and enmity gearing. A tank could conceivable keep hate off of DDs if he was good enough and kept on it and geared for it etc. And if your tank sucked it wont and your DDs will eat it. Kinda like back before we were constantly capped for those who remember using tanks on old mobs back in the day
    Once the damage dealers you are talking about get hit they should start to lose enmity. Least that is the way it seems to me.

    So even when this hate cap is reached, the DD can still lose enmity if he/she pulls threat and is damaged. Now if the player continues to go all out on the mob even when they are getting pounded that isn't the tank's fault and is the fault of a suicidal player. The player just needs to learn to ease up when they start taking damage. And that is probably what SE means when they say they want strategy in the gameplay and not just mindless tank and spank like other MMORPGs have (which gets incredibly boring).

    So I don't really see a serious problem with the current system. It's not perfect - but does allow for strategy and enable players to utilize a tank if they play appropriately.
    (0)
    Last edited by Dale; 09-26-2014 at 02:02 AM.

  6. #26
    Player Dale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    802
    Character
    Jeremi
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by DrWho View Post
    The cast time is to long on PLD and need to be cut in have. The new spells Crusade should have cast time like flash
    This is a problem for the class more generally and one of the things that bother me about paladin. Many of our spells have lengthy cast times. It's not just crusade. So does phalanx, enlight, cure 4. And when fighting stronger mobs (especially multiple mobs) getting casts off can be a real pain.

    There is a solution to this: -spell interruption. But the problem is you need so much of it to ensure your casting doesn't get interrupted that it can severely gimp your character if you wear the gear for it. Especially now since none of the high item level gear seems to have any on it. Even the upgrade for the valor legs for some annoying reason doesn't have this stat which is originally on the base item.

    In my opinion the paladin's gear needs to be retooled and this stat should be generously afforded to it. That would go a long way to making paladin a better and more complete class.
    (0)
    Last edited by Dale; 09-26-2014 at 02:16 AM.

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