Holy crap guys

[Rhonda]

A 30% Haste II would allow a BRD+RDM combo to max Haste w/ only Victory March but.. what party opportunities does this open? Delve1 is mostly restricted due to the HP-scaling. DDx3 BRD WHM SCH can handle that easily and RDM can't replace any of those jobs. D AAs are mostly done with RNG (and a BRD), where 2xMarch and Haste II might not be incredibly useful. One can certainly make an argument for Dia III and Weight II (which is what I'm assuming the second spell that wasn't mention is) as a replacement for Minuet and Prelude. Scherzo, however, would be sorely missed.

Interestingly, this does open opportunities for lower-level groups as well. If your LS hasn't cleared these events, or can't clear them too easily, then Weight II, Dia III, and Haste II would be a great help to groups with less-powerful DDs, 2-song BRDs, or BRDs without +4 March total. The fact that some groups take RDM to Tojil anyway means they'd be getting two new Spells without the cost of having to take additional players.

If anyone can speak to VD AAs or Delve2, I'd be interesting in hearing their thoughts.

[Raydeus]

All I have to say is Haste II better not be self only like you guys have been making all the other rdm main job only buffs...

Mochizuki-san (Mocchi) casted Haste II on Matsui-san on the video, so it seems it works just like Haste.

[AppropriateName5786]

Well, Refresh II successfully got RDMs back into parties, as SE predicted, so I just know that Haste II will make them shine again. Next thing you know, they'll be making RDM overpowered with Diaga II and even, *gasp*, En-spells III! That'll fix 'em good!

[Afania]

A 30% Haste II would allow a BRD+RDM combo to max Haste w/ only Victory March but.. what party opportunities does this open? Delve1 is mostly restricted due to the HP-scaling. DDx3 BRD WHM SCH can handle that easily and RDM can't replace any of those jobs.

RDM can replace a SCH in delve, but unless haste 1 and 2 stacks it's not going to replace BRD and it doesn't solve any of the BRD being too OP issue.

[Rhonda]

RDM can replace a SCH in delve, but unless haste 1 and 2 stacks it's not going to replace BRD and it doesn't solve any of the BRD being too OP issue.

RDM can't get Stun recast down as low as SCH. Until it can do that, it can't really serve the same purpose. While Tidal Guillotine and Incinerating Lahar have become more survivable over time, I'm not sure taking RDM is worth incurring the extra risk.

Also, no one is going to replace BRD with RDM. Considering how little utility BRD has apart from enhancing, I'm thinking there's no reason for RDM to be able to compete with BRD on party enhancements, anyway. For the most part, I think the interesting thing is determining how Haste II / Weight II change the BRD + RDM relationship, especially given that BRD + RDM + WHM is often too much support.

If people are willing to Pink Mage, RDM + BRD (or COR) becomes an option but WHM are so common I don't know why anyone would bother going that route.

And BRD is not OP.

[saevel]

RDM can't get Stun recast down as low as SCH. Until it can do that, it can't really serve the same purpose. While Tidal Guillotine and Incinerating Lahar have become more survivable over time, I'm not sure taking RDM is worth incurring the extra risk.

Also, no one is going to replace BRD with RDM. Considering how little utility BRD has apart from enhancing, I'm thinking there's no reason for RDM to be able to compete with BRD on party enhancements, anyway. For the most part, I think the interesting thing is determining how Haste II / Weight II change the BRD + RDM relationship, especially given that BRD + RDM + WHM is often too much support.

If people are willing to Pink Mage, RDM + BRD (or COR) becomes an option but WHM are so common I don't know why anyone would bother going that route.

And BRD is not OP.

Yes and no. You can get 9s stun timers which is the floor for FC + Haste reduction. The delve NM's will do TP moves every 11~13s, possibly longer if they cast spells. They have very predictable attack patterns. Attack Round -> Tp Move -> Attack Round -> Tp Move, with magic being frequently cast after attack round but before TP Move. And while SCH can get 3s stun timers with enhanced JA's, there is no need for them to be that low on tier 1 delve. That being said, RDM requires a much better gear setup then SCH to be functional.

Source: I've actually stunned Delve I as a RDM. Competent stun SCH's have been a PITA to find lately so I geared my RDM (already had 95% of the gear) for stunning as a last resort. People make this out to be way harder then it actually is.

[Numquam]

I haven't seen a RDM since 2010.

[AppropriateName5786]

If Haste II is indeed 30% and the other spells RDM receives do the same thing as GEO's spells, all you need to know about them this:

1) They will not help RDM replace BRD as a buffer
2) They will not help RDM enfeeble better than a GEO
3) They will not help RDM be a good enough DD to warrant bringing
4) They will not help RDM heal well enough to replace a WHM

When RDM was the best healer in the game, it was light years ahead of WHM when it came to keeping exp chains going. There has never really been a place for second or third best in end-game. People only want the best for a certain role, and RDM hasn't been the best at anything for a long time. After the proposed changes (with what little info we can glean) RDM will be in the same rut, and at best it could occupy the barely existent party slot that currently belongs to GEO.

[Afania]

RDM can't get Stun recast down as low as SCH. Until it can do that, it can't really serve the same purpose. While Tidal Guillotine and Incinerating Lahar have become more survivable over time, I'm not sure taking RDM is worth incurring the extra risk.

Also, no one is going to replace BRD with RDM. Considering how little utility BRD has apart from enhancing, I'm thinking there's no reason for RDM to be able to compete with BRD on party enhancements, anyway. For the most part, I think the interesting thing is determining how Haste II / Weight II change the BRD + RDM relationship, especially given that BRD + RDM + WHM is often too much support.

If people are willing to Pink Mage, RDM + BRD (or COR) becomes an option but WHM are so common I don't know why anyone would bother going that route.

And BRD is not OP.

I've done delve with RDM as main stunner several times and I didn't notice much difference in terms of difficulty. I'd still want SCH because of regen V but RDM is totally viable replacement.

Also, if a job that has ability to increase each DD output by around 90% AND slow/AoE sleep /dispel and prevent ppl from getting 1 shot isn't OP, which job in this game is OP? Not even SAM can increase 3 DD's output by 270%.

[Rhonda]

Yes and no. You can get 9s stun timers which is the floor for FC + Haste reduction. The delve NM's will do TP moves every 11~13s, possibly longer if they cast spells. They have very predictable attack patterns. Attack Round -> Tp Move -> Attack Round -> Tp Move, with magic being frequently cast after attack round but before TP Move. And while SCH can get 3s stun timers with enhanced JA's, there is no need for them to be that low on tier 1 delve. That being said, RDM requires a much better gear setup then SCH to be functional.

Source: I've actually stunned Delve I as a RDM. Competent stun SCH's have been a PITA to find lately so I geared my RDM (already had 95% of the gear) for stunning as a last resort. People make this out to be way harder then it actually is.

While I've heard of people doing this, I wouldn't consider it a drop-in replacement for SCH, especially not in PUG. You'd probably have to wait just as long to get a PUG RDM with a Stun/FC/Haste set. 3~6s recast means SCH stun things like Dispelga and Meteor between TP moves. Hell, a SCH could even misfire and recover. Not exactly crucial but helpful to maintain a smooth run, if anything. As I said, taking an RDM instead of SCH incurs additional risk.

To be fair, however, I've done almost all of my recent Delves with either of two SCH, pretty much. An LS mate starts the group, starts talking to one of the two, presumably, then I jump in. I remember SCH being a pain to come across sometimes but if you can't find a SCH you can just do the Bee or Dawakawakawaka instead of Tojil. While Apoth and Guillotine both suck, I don't remember either of those NMs "requiring" a SCH or, by extension in this conversation, RDM.

Related, it seems RDM's issue is still specialization. As long as another job can do perform at a task even just slightly better, people will just take that job. RDM can't get Stun quite as low as SCH, can't Cure quite as efficiently as WHM, and while Dia III and Weight II are interesting corollaries to Minuet and Madrigal, BRD wins big over RDM with Ballads and March. What would be helpful for RDM and a few of the other lolJobs would probably be alliance content where it's helpful, rather than hurtful, to bring more people.