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  1. #31
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    Yeah no one is asking for 1 shield to be the only one you use ever... but you shouldn't have to switch so often between shields in the middle of battle that you blink like a Christmas tree. No one else does that... and before anyone brings up the argument of brd or mages blah blah that's only when doing something when everyone maccros stuff in not during the flow of battle based on what the enemy is doing.

    More importantly if aegis can't block and the mob uses a decent amount of magic moves what is even the point of using pld? You will be eating tons of dmg and status effects from normal attacks/moves while stopping about as much magic dmg as a RUN... who with it's ergon weapon can prevent a lot more physical not to mention it can stop a lot of status effects too and deal more dmg not that anyone cares about tank dmg lol

    And ochain is already outdated in terms of total physical dmg prevented by shields that take at most a couple of hours to make
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    Last edited by dasva; 06-04-2014 at 02:09 PM.

  2. #32
    Player Aeron's Avatar
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    Oct 2011
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    137
    Character
    Lanselot
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Yeah no one is asking for 1 shield to be the only one you use ever... but you shouldn't have to switch so often between shields in the middle of battle that you blink like a Christmas tree. No one else does that... and before anyone brings up the argument of brd or mages blah blah that's only when doing something when everyone maccros stuff in not during the flow of battle based on what the enemy is doing.

    More importantly if aegis can't block and the mob uses a decent amount of magic moves what is even the point of using pld? You will be eating tons of dmg and status effects from normal attacks/moves while stopping about as much magic dmg as a RUN... who with it's ergon weapon can prevent a lot more physical not to mention it can stop a lot of status effects too and deal more dmg not that anyone cares about tank dmg lol

    And ochain is already outdated in terms of total physical dmg prevented by shields that take at most a couple of hours to make
    True that while run with its ergon wpn can reach a higher level of pdt specifically 75% as opposed to a pld with burtgang at 68%, the difference is that pld can also equip ochain or even priwen (if you're are just going for total dmg mitigation). the combined defensive power of these two relics equals in the neighborhood of 89% total mitigation. When you look at the time and effort spent to obtain the run mythic vs pld mythic+ochain its about the same amout of time roughly. Imo its really a case of what job do you like better because lets face it when youre talking about these setups either one is going to get the job done just fine from a tanking perspective.
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  3. #33
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    Dec 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raka View Post
    Ok, so you still are missing the point. I'm asking for it to just be a fulltime piece. Not be 100% best MDT and PDT shield. Ochain will always remain best PDT shield with Priwen. Best explained in Aeron's and Martel's recent post saying we shouldn't be penalized for swapping shields out and losing TP and aftermath 3, etc..

    Aegis just needs to get some adjustments in it's physical field. Not get a better block rate than Ochain, but to be trailing right behind Ochain's block rate and not behind most of the other easily obtained shields.
    Then I apologize, I misunderstood. I fully agree Aegis needs an upgrade with skill that puts it between Priwen and it's next best non-Ochain alternative in Physical Damage Reduction so that the shield can be full-timed without dropping your Physical Defense to the ground. :x
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeron View Post
    True that while run with its ergon wpn can reach a higher level of pdt specifically 75% as opposed to a pld with burtgang at 68%, the difference is that pld can also equip ochain or even priwen (if you're are just going for total dmg mitigation). the combined defensive power of these two relics equals in the neighborhood of 89% total mitigation. When you look at the time and effort spent to obtain the run mythic vs pld mythic+ochain its about the same amout of time roughly. Imo its really a case of what job do you like better because lets face it when youre talking about these setups either one is going to get the job done just fine from a tanking perspective.
    The problem is it that RUN is doing that WHILE still maintaining magic defense and resistance. While pld you have to actually put a physical shield on to even survive the physical hits which is beginning to devalue aegis... so even if you do carry both and switch to aegis for some magic dmg you know is coming if you don't switch back to the ochain real fast you might end up getting one shotted by a tp move... and yeah it has happened to me. Also the straight -25% scales better with level as shields just get worse as level increases (not to mention the better parry/evasion fastcast for flash and foil spamming.... though obviously not quite as big an effect as the pdt) . Not saying we need capped aegis block rates and another 40 def on ochain... but aegis shouldn't floor your block rate to the point where your physical defense is that of any other DD who can ya know actually DD and not lose their tp switching shields and in the world of ilvl 119 a empyrean shield whose focus is physical dmg mitigation shouldn't have the block dmg of a level 73 cheap ah shield... that'd be like keeping the rem staffs at only giving macc maybe some int and no mab or magic dmg on them
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  5. #35
    Player Aeron's Avatar
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    Oct 2011
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    Character
    Lanselot
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    The problem is it that RUN is doing that WHILE still maintaining magic defense and resistance. While pld you have to actually put a physical shield on to even survive the physical hits which is beginning to devalue aegis... so even if you do carry both and switch to aegis for some magic dmg you know is coming if you don't switch back to the ochain real fast you might end up getting one shotted by a tp move... and yeah it has happened to me. Also the straight -25% scales better with level as shields just get worse as level increases (not to mention the better parry/evasion fastcast for flash and foil spamming.... though obviously not quite as big an effect as the pdt) . Not saying we need capped aegis block rates and another 40 def on ochain... but aegis shouldn't floor your block rate to the point where your physical defense is that of any other DD who can ya know actually DD and not lose their tp switching shields and in the world of ilvl 119 a empyrean shield whose focus is physical dmg mitigation shouldn't have the block dmg of a level 73 cheap ah shield... that'd be like keeping the rem staffs at only giving macc maybe some int and no mab or magic dmg on them
    What I do and this is just me but if I know the NM does magic spells I maintain 50mdt in a hybrid set and just fulltime ochain. I try to maintain AM3 on burtgang more then worry about shield swapping and trust my support to heal me for spell dmg. I haven't encountered even on VD a magic spell that could one shot me over a ws that could.
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  6. #36
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    While that is a good strategy it brings up the why even have an aegis argument
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  7. #37
    Player Aeron's Avatar
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    Character
    Lanselot
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    Asura
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    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    While that is a good strategy it brings up the why even have an aegis argument
    You know that's actually a good question. I made Aegis before Ochain so I have always had it but ever since I got Ochain I've probably used it maybe 20% of the time. I recommend to anyone just starting out on pld to make Ochain first then Aegis and if you love pld Burtgang. All the other Relics and Empyreans are just fluff. The reason its worth it to make an Aegis though is because for that 20% I took no spell dmg and everyone else died sometimes so it literally saved the run because while I was able to hold the group was able to reset. AATT during meteor spam for example. Cloudsplitter during <25% hp phase will one shot you or just make it really hard to recover from on difficult.
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  8. #38
    Player Cliamain's Avatar
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    Oct 2011
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    USA
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    12
    Character
    Cliamain
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Actually if you think about it. Ochain isn't even a PDT shield. Has the worst dmg mitigated of any of the high tier shields. It was a solo piece because pld has no real way to get mp back once it is gone. It's like a refresh/sipar you would use /NIN to tank stuff.

    I spent a #^$& load of time making my Aegis back in the day. Emp's were the poor mans relic. The rich man should be able to be the rich man and stand above the rest of the crowd.

    Cold to say it like that but that is just the way it is.
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    "Let me win, but if i don't win. Let me be brave in my endeavor"

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