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  1. #11
    Player Raka's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Former Citizen of Ifrit
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    324
    Character
    Shyuko
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Camiie View Post
    Sure, make Aegis and Ochain even more broken so Paladin is even more of an exclusive club. That sounds great for the game.
    Please take your sarcasm elsewhere and keep the forums troll-free, thank you.
    (1)

  2. #12
    Player Raka's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Former Citizen of Ifrit
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    Shyuko
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    Carbuncle
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    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirage View Post
    And why not? with 115 shield skill, it would be better than Priwen but a significant portion. Even with less than 112, it would be, though, due to the retarded amount of magic damage reduction it offers.

    Make it better, sure, but don't make it ridiculous. (hint, at 99cap, it was ridiculous)
    While I can agree with not making it "ridiculous", I personally do not know how it was all calculated, etc. It was information passed to me from a friend. The concept of the skill amount was based off of the pattern SquareEnix used for Guarding and Parrying, etc..
    (0)

  3. #13
    Player Raka's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Former Citizen of Ifrit
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    324
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    Shyuko
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    Carbuncle
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    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Martel View Post
    Firstly, Let me clarify my position on this. I'm not against Aegis getting an item level update. I'm entirely for it. It does need it. block rate sucks.

    However, +242 shield skill, is excessive. It would make Aegis the one shield to rule them all. And it's even golden.
    I do appreciate that you took the time to go into more detail over this, and yes he did give me the damage blocked math. Though I do rather clear this up that I personally never did testing myself, which is why in my original post I had asked for someone knowledgeable in that specific field to post the information. I also made it quite clear that I was not asking for something over-powered, just a more proper adjustment. Next I'd like to point out, I pulled the question of asking for possible +242 shield skill based on SquareEnix's trend they were using for guarding and parrying skills.

    On a side note, you don't get March *2, and/or Haste while soloing in content with no Alter Ego access, while even then...it's not reliable nor the content is hard enough anyways.

    Finally, I guess this thread is otherwise, "concluded" if people are against even the slightest of adjustments... Considering they are actually Aegis paladins. Otherwise, they really should keep their noses out of it.
    (0)

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raka View Post
    Finally, I guess this thread is otherwise, "concluded" if people are against even the slightest of adjustments... Considering they are actually Aegis paladins. Otherwise, they really should keep their noses out of it.
    If adjustments you suggest to Aegis would affect the balance of Ochain as well as Aegis then it stands to reason owners of either shield should at very least be warranted in their replies to this topic. I myself am not an Aegis PLD but I do have an Ochain(albeit on a friends character I often use) which I believe should afford me some amount of right to speak on this subject if it threatens the status of the shield I use as being the best(ish) melee shield in the game. I only say this because I don't think the lack of a certain shield should discount any opinions on the subject when it's not only that one shield that would potentially be effected in a broader sense.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Player Aeron's Avatar
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    Oct 2011
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    137
    Character
    Lanselot
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    I agree with the TC. I believe that aegis is due for some kind of adjustment. The issue is a case of balance. I think they need to increase the block rate on aegis just enough so that in situations where you are full timing it that you don't get absolutely crushed. I'd also like to see an increase to shield bash as well.

    I'd also like to comment on ppl who like to refer to pld as this quasi exclusive club. First off, you don't "need" ochain or aegis to do content. Priwen and Beatific Shield+1 are not slouch shields. How do I know this, well I have all the shields and have tested them. Its all about dmg mitigation. Ochain is actually not as good as Priwen when it comes to tdmg mitigation, however there are drawback which is called balance. If you going to use Priwen you run the risk of having reprisal dispelled or not having the ability to fulltime it due to buffs. For a shield that roughly costs 5M that is comparable to Ochain that's pretty damm good if you ask me. In situations where you may consider back tanking Priwen is actually the shield of choice.

    The comparison between Beatific Shield +1 and Aegis aren't as close however. The fact that Beatific Shield +1 doesn't break the 50mdt soft cap is no bueno. I think SE should lower the mdt on this shield to -15mdt but make it so that it goes over the soft cap.

    All in all if you don't have R/E shield and you want to be a pld you really should have Priwen and Beatific Shield +1. Anyone who just wants to do endgame and think there should be no gear requirements you are what is wrong with this game. How does it even make sense that you are going up against some of the hardest content and you shouldn't need a standard baseline level of gear to beat these NMs. No ilvl 117 is not the baseline im sorry in reference to RoE gear. You should have to spend more then 4hrs to gear your character to do endgame content or else its not an achievement.
    (1)

  6. #16
    Player Louispv's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    280
    Character
    Louispv
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Priwen isn't nearly as good as Ochain simply because everything has constant dispel. Every NM in Rakaznar skirmish has either multi dispel moves, or en dispel on their melee hits, as do many of the Delve bosses. With all the content being balanced around getting hit for full damage once killing you in one hit, reprisal, or any form of haste being dispelled is a death sentence. When you do shield block the enemy WS's do 700ish damage and you're fine, but even in damage taken-50% if you don't shield block one, your whole party wipes because you took 1500 damage from that WS.

    I'm just so tired of getting one shot by Ark Angel Galka because reprisal wore right before it WS'd. Blocking every single hit no matter what for a 60% damage reduction is a hell of a lot better than blocking 80% of the damage 99% of the time, because that 1% insta death crap won't happen. I'd gladly take all the stats off Priwen and even lower the damage it blocks to the same or lower than Ochain if it just didn't need such a gimmicky spell to be useful.

    Either that or give PLD a ton more fast cast gear. Think right now the max you can get is 30% on PLD, and that's giving up a chance at quickcast on impatiens for 2 fast cast on Incantor stone, and using 5 fast cast neuvo corselet instead of shabti cuirass. So only a 15% reduction in recast, at the cost of taking off half your defensive gear, sometimes for non item level equipment. Even in all my fast cast stuff, and Shabti Cuirass, I still need haste and two marches to keep it up full time, which never happens with all the damned dispel flying around. That's 4 buffs that have to be up full time or you die.

    It's not as if the Dev's don't know tanks need fast cast, since RUN gets capped Fast cast full time by macroing in 2 pieces of gear they would be wearing anyway. Foil is easily full timed with a 30 second duration and a 10 second recast, solo, after all their fast cast, but reprisal just barely gets to have the same duration as recast with the help of 2 other people, is what I'm saying.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player Camiie's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Bastok
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    1,495
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    Camiie
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Raka View Post
    Please take your sarcasm elsewhere and keep the forums troll-free, thank you.
    Sarcastic, perhaps, but I wasn't trolling. I truly think making these two shields even more powerful is a bad idea. It may be wonderful for those who possess them, but you're making the gap between the haves and the have nots impossibly wide. While yes a fully completed Relic and Emp should be an advantage, it shouldn't be that large of one. The next best option shouldn't be considered useless by comparison, and it all but is already.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player Aeron's Avatar
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    Oct 2011
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    137
    Character
    Lanselot
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Camiie View Post
    Sarcastic, perhaps, but I wasn't trolling. I truly think making these two shields even more powerful is a bad idea. It may be wonderful for those who possess them, but you're making the gap between the haves and the have nots impossibly wide. While yes a fully completed Relic and Emp should be an advantage, it shouldn't be that large of one. The next best option shouldn't be considered useless by comparison, and it all but is already.
    This right here is where you lost me. Priwen is not a POS and neither is Beatific Shield +1. The problem here imo is that you're not a pld main and you want to act like you can get the next best thing and do just as well im sorry it doesn't work like that. Ive done AA (D) with Priwen without any issues just to test the shield. With all the knowledge we have about how horrible the block rate on Aegis, I have friends that have still been able to do AA (D). It was tough granted and the whm had to be on his/her toes but its doable. The fact that shields and instruments haven't been upgraded is a direct reflect of ppl complaining about not wanting to build either sounds like a personal problem and frankly its retarded.

    I listen to ppl constantly talk about how they don't want to make Aegis or Ochain. In response to the crying (and that's what it is) SE came out with Beatific Shield+1 and Priwen. You can very easily do all the (normal) battlefields and if you want to do (D) its going to be more of a challenge obviously. Now if you want to do (VD) make Ochain or Aegis its that simple.

    The question here is really isn't a question of whether these shields can do the job in standard content. Its really all about the invite. If you have Priwen and Beatific+1 and your not getting invited to runs on (N) then the party leader is an idiot. If its on (D+) then you better have the subsequent gear/skill to be able to handle the increase in dmg that you're going to be taking. Even then you probably aren't going to get the invite in a PUG, that's just the nature of PUGs.

    Considering both Aegis and Ochain cost around 150M-225M to fully upgrade to lvl 99(not 119) id say they deserve a more substantial increase then the next two shields in line. For the simple fact that Priwen cost only 5M and Beatific Shield +1 is free.
    (1)
    Last edited by Aeron; 06-03-2014 at 10:41 AM.

  9. #19
    Player Raka's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Former Citizen of Ifrit
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    324
    Character
    Shyuko
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Demonjustin View Post
    If adjustments you suggest to Aegis would affect the balance of Ochain as well as Aegis then it stands to reason owners of either shield should at very least be warranted in their replies to this topic. I myself am not an Aegis PLD but I do have an Ochain(albeit on a friends character I often use) which I believe should afford me some amount of right to speak on this subject if it threatens the status of the shield I use as being the best(ish) melee shield in the game. I only say this because I don't think the lack of a certain shield should discount any opinions on the subject when it's not only that one shield that would potentially be effected in a broader sense.
    I'm to asume you sort of missed my point, sure Ochain users are more than welcome to speak their mind, but Ochain users also did not spend a large sum of gil either on getting Ochain unless you just didn't have time to farm VNM3 pops. Also going to point out, how would any further adjustments to Aegis PLD would make Ochain irrelevent? People are clearly misunderstanding what I'm asking. I'm simply looking for adjustments to an item that costs more time/gil to make than the other shields, to be a little more ...well, a fulltime shield. If I'm going to invest time into it, then it really should be something I can say "I don't need any other shields now that I finally have this one".

    Does it make a little bit of sense? Like it should be for weapons too. People pick the strongest weapon and stick with it. You don't carry 3~4 of the same type of Gun around on RNG and say "Oh well this weapon is only good for Delve, the others I use for AA2 or Tenzen.", do you? My arguement is pretty legitiment and it's not kicking the other shields to the curb. It's being able to fulltime the same shield because I invested my time into that item. The other shields would still be great alternates if you don't have Aegis, etc. Otherwise, it still wouldn't really change their stance anyways if people are only looking for Aegis PLD to begin with for events.

    So to say that Aegis threatens the status of the shield you use is a mute arguement... You're welcome to share your opinions none the less, I sure don't mind. I'm just sharing my own also. All I'm asking is for people who don't even play PLD or know the work it took to get Aegis and/or Ochain to just stay out of the thread concerning said items. Because 9 out of 10 of those people are always "against" changes or they are just there to troll because they have nothing better to do with their time.
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player Raka's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Former Citizen of Ifrit
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    324
    Character
    Shyuko
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Camiie View Post
    Sarcastic, perhaps, but I wasn't trolling. I truly think making these two shields even more powerful is a bad idea. It may be wonderful for those who possess them, but you're making the gap between the haves and the have nots impossibly wide. While yes a fully completed Relic and Emp should be an advantage, it shouldn't be that large of one. The next best option shouldn't be considered useless by comparison, and it all but is already.
    This has always been the case. People want the best geared players for more efficiency. Always. I don't understand how it would change anything in the current state of the game to give slight improvements to Aegis right now. There are 4 shields total that people can use regardless of getting changes to Aegis or not. 2 of them are easier than cutting a cake to get. Ochain takes a bit of elbow grease and patience to get. Aegis takes several days of waiting, gil, and/or currency farming. Also those out of the way ToMs which adds more days in the process of finallizing. Then 25m~ more gil to go from 95 to 99.

    Changing anything now won't change the current shields stances one bit. Sure Aegis will be more prefered, then Ochain/Priwen, and finally Beatrific. But then it's not different than the current stance on the shields now is it? Ochain is almost always prefered then Aegis, followed by Priwen and then Beatrific. The gap remains the same. The only thing I'm asking is the ability to just have the one shield as a fulltime piece. Not need 3 or 4 shields due to situational. Etc.

    Sadly enough though, BRD suffers this worse in a way. They have to have 99 Emp, Relic, and then JSE instruments. That's a pretty terrible gap they made in the BRD community if you're so concerned about the gaps between the owners and those who do not have.
    (1)

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