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  1. #1
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    Mar 2011
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    Job Point feedback

    I figured this would be a relevant topic for discussion.

    Personally I think the "Jump Physical Attack" modification is rather weak. Since Jump and Spirit Jump are limited by the same timer (50ish seconds) this bonus is underutilized. Additionally, +attack doesn't change much considering Spirit Jump(the more frequently used version of "Jump" ) already has an attack bonus. Even when maxed out, the effect of +Attack on Spirit Jump/Jump are not very noticeable and do not really help DRG's damage in the long run. Martel calculated the following:

    12. 12 points of avg damage.

    That equates to 0.228 DPS, assuming perfectly timed jumps...

    After all the massive grinding it takes to cap out a job point, we get +0.228 DPS.
    So +30 attack on an ability used every 50 seconds(unrealistic to execute it perfectly every 50 seconds exactly by the way) is 0.228DPS. An average of +12 damage on Spirit Jump. Now compared to Hasso, which is +10STR(maintained fulltime basically), and eventually +30STR when the cap is lifted to 30 not only affects every auto attack but also affects every weapon skill; whereas the Jump bonus only works once every 50 seconds on an attack which can miss.

    Possible solutions: Change the bonus from "Jump: Physical Attack+" to one of the following:

    1) Jump: DMG+
    2) Jump Damage + X%
    3) Jump TP Bonus
    4) Jump: Store TP + X
    5) Jump: Double Attack + X

    The difference between 1 and 2 is as follows. DMG refers to weapon damage similar to the Spirit Surge Job Point bonus. Each Job Point bonus for Jump would be like adding a certain bonus to our Weapon's DMG rating. Choice 2 would be a direct percent increase to total Jump damage. So a Jump that would normally do 500 damage, with Jump Damage +10% would do 550. Any of these would have a more noticeable effect on enhancing Jump. Jump Physical Attack bonus(the current job point bonus) is so negligible it's pointless.

    Moving forward, when the next batch of Job Points come around, please, please, please do not give us High Jump Physical Attack or High Jump Accuracy or anything of the sort. Please give us a bonus that more directly enhances the damage or TP given as he primary function of jumps for DRG is to increase weapon skill frequency through bonus TP.

    As an addendum, the Fly High bonus attack is just as pointless. The SP2 lasts for 30 seconds. Every time a Jump or Weapon Skill is used, there is a 2-3 second Job Ability delay in which no other Jump can be used. Due to this, there are actually fewer Jumps that can be used in 30 seconds than one would assume. Instead of a +attack for Jumps during 'Fly High', could we get a +Duration increase or something?

    The other job points(Spirit Surge and Ancient Circle) are acceptable as is.

    Finally, since DRG has so few traits and Job Abilities that could conceivably be enhanced in the future, here's a list of potential Job Point categories that would be useful, along with a list of Job Point categories we don't want to see:

    List of useful potential Job Points:

    -Jump DMG
    -Jump TP Bonus
    -High Jump/Soul Jump recast reduction
    -Super Jump recast reduction
    -Steady Wing: Damage Taken -X%
    -Spirit Link: Dragoon loses less HP when using Spirit Link
    -Call Wyvern: 10-15 second reduction to Call Wyvern timer per upgrade
    -Physical Accuracy Bonus(RDM and WHM got Magic Accuracy Bonus)
    -Wyvern Haste
    -Weapon Skill Damage%(since DRG does not have a "stance JA" to be boosted through Job Points like Berserk or Hasso, we could use some kind of Job Point boost to our damage output that isn't contingent on a 60-120 second ability.

    Categories we don't want to see:
    High Jump Attack Bonus
    High Jump Accuracy
    Wyvern Accuracy
    Wyvern Attack
    Wyvern Defense
    Wyvern Magic Evasion
    Pretty much anything related to the Wyvern as nothing you can give us through job points could make Wyverns noticable stronger against powerful mobs without making them overpowered on weaker content.
    Anything related to Dragon Breaker, it's useless on 95% of things.
    Conserve TP; unreliable/unpredictable
    Critical Defense Bonus enhancements(why did we even get this trait instead of Critical Attack Bonus??)
    Spirit Link restoring more HP(it's already quite potent)


    In sum, Job Points are a good opportunity to strengthen DRG as a damage dealer but I fear the way SE is going about it is lackluster. +Attack on a timed ability at such low quantities won't result in much of a damage increase. Perhaps if it was +3% attack per upgrade there'd be a difference, but when bosses and NMs have 1500-1700+ defense, adding +30 attack to a 60-120 second ability is tantamount to nothing. To compare, Samurai will be getting +30 STR added to Hasso when the cap is raised, (which is a 250% increase since it already gives them 12STR) a self buff JA that can be maintained full time which also gives them 12% Attack Speed and 10 Accuracy and 10-15% Double Attack. STR which affects not only every one of a Samurai's attacks but also significantly increasing their WS damage(heavily based on STR). There is a huge disparity between one job getting virtually a +30STR full time bonus and another job getting +30 attack on one hit every 60 seconds.
    (6)
    Last edited by Ophannus; 05-22-2014 at 01:30 PM.

  2. #2
    Player Babekeke's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Just 2 things I'd like to ammend here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    -Call Wyvern: 10-15 second reduction to Call Wyvern timer per upgrade
    Make it 1 min per upgrade and we're talking. is 10 mins really too much to ask for?!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    Conserve TP; unreliable/unpredictable
    Unless they actually made it WORTH gearing for by making it +2 TP to the base amount conserved, per upgrade. For example, whereas it currently grants somewhere between 3 and 20 TP when it procs, adding 2 per upgrade to the base would make it 23-40 TP saved (when capped), so at least it's saved us at least 1 swing when it procs (with a chance of 2), and was therefore worthwhile.^^
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player Kensagaku's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    652
    Character
    Kensagaku
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Babekeke View Post
    Make it 1 min per upgrade and we're talking. is 10 mins really too much to ask for?!!
    Remember that we're actually looking forward to 30 at the cap later on; -30 minutes would go way over. Honestly, I'd be content with ten seconds; that'd knock us down to 15 minutes on Call Wyvern (though they'd have to make JP WAY more reasonable to get for anyone to go that far). I'd love to see fifteen seconds (12:30 recast at cap) but I'd take what I can get.
    (0)
    [Kensagaku - formerly of Kujata] - http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Valefor/Kensagaku

  4. #4
    Player Babekeke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kensagaku View Post
    Remember that we're actually looking forward to 30 at the cap later on; -30 minutes would go way over. Honestly, I'd be content with ten seconds; that'd knock us down to 15 minutes on Call Wyvern (though they'd have to make JP WAY more reasonable to get for anyone to go that far). I'd love to see fifteen seconds (12:30 recast at cap) but I'd take what I can get.
    OK, I'll settle for 30 seconds... 5 mins at cap once they allow 30 at cap and if anyone can be bothered to go all the way to 30 just on this 1 category.
    (0)

  5. #5
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    Reducing a JA by more than half from Job Points is extremely unlikely. If they did, they might as well get rid of Wyvern's 40% DT, bump Spirit Link to 3min recast, halve its potency back to original and remove Steady Wing.

    Conserve TP is a terrible job trait. I always said Dragoon should get Save TP job traits capping out at like 20 or 25 at 99 and meritable or something to be 30. This would reduce the reliance of /SAM by some degree and open up /WAR and /DRK as other options. Compared to WAR, DRK, SAM(which all sub WAR or are WARand get Berserk, Aggressor, Double Attack), DRG must sub SAM for Hasso and Store TP, so we lose out on VAST quantities of Attack from not having Berserk and 10% double attack. SAM/WAR gets 25% Double Attack from Zanshin and /WAR during Hasso and benefits from Berserk. DRK/SAM gets the attack and haste bonuses of Last Resort with Hasso as well, WAR/SAM gets Berserk and Hasso. DRG doesn't get either attack or haste naturally so they have to choose, unlike other two-handed jobs.

    So I was thinking, as far as bonuses to attack speed go:
    DRK: Last Resort(15% Attack Speed)
    SAM: Hasso(10% Attack Speed)
    DNC: Haste Samba (10% Attack Speed)
    NIN/THF/DNC/BLU: Dual Wield
    MNK/PUP: Martial Arts
    RNG: Rapid Shot/Snapshot/Velocity Shot


    DRG don't have any bonuses to attack speed(barring Spirit Surge, DRG's SP1 which shouldn't count. Could maybe get a trait called "Ferocity" or "Fervor" that gives a 5-10% Job Ability Haste? Either make it a trait or give DRG a job abilities which grant a bonus to attack speed that stack with Hasso! (DRK/SAM and SAM/DRK gets Hasso+Last Resport and all other melees get some kind of combination of attack speed boosts available to them but not DRG.
    (2)
    Last edited by Ophannus; 05-24-2014 at 02:10 AM.

  6. #6
    Player Mitruya's Avatar
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    Jan 2014
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    356
    Character
    Mitruya
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    A recast reduction to Call Wyvern would be great. DRG is the only pet job that cannot call another pet in a timely manner. Spirit Link and Steady Wing are not enough to keep the wyvern alive in endgame content, and clogging up our inventory with non-stackable Dawn Mulsums is not the answer either.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player Nakts's Avatar
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    May 2011
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    Windurst
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    98
    Character
    Nakts
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Call has needed a recast reduction for ages, twenty minutes is not good enough. I also won't accept any grumbles about how twenty minutes is better than two hours, those dark days are long dead and practicality needs to prevail.
    (1)

  8. #8
    Player Tennotsukai's Avatar
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    Apr 2011
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    577
    Character
    Tennotsukai
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    Reducing a JA by more than half from Job Points is extremely unlikely. If they did, they might as well get rid of Wyvern's 40% DT, bump Spirit Link to 3min recast, halve its potency back to original and remove Steady Wing.

    Conserve TP is a terrible job trait. I always said Dragoon should get Save TP job traits capping out at like 20 or 25 at 99 and meritable or something to be 30. This would reduce the reliance of /SAM by some degree and open up /WAR and /DRK as other options. Compared to WAR, DRK, SAM(which all sub WAR or are WARand get Berserk, Aggressor, Double Attack), DRG must sub SAM for Hasso and Store TP, so we lose out on VAST quantities of Attack from not having Berserk and 10% double attack. SAM/WAR gets 25% Double Attack from Zanshin and /WAR during Hasso and benefits from Berserk. DRK/SAM gets the attack and haste bonuses of Last Resort with Hasso as well, WAR/SAM gets Berserk and Hasso. DRG doesn't get either attack or haste naturally so they have to choose, unlike other two-handed jobs.

    So I was thinking, as far as bonuses to attack speed go:
    DRK: Last Resort(15% Attack Speed)
    SAM: Hasso(10% Attack Speed)
    DNC: Haste Samba (10% Attack Speed)
    NIN/THF/DNC/BLU: Dual Wield
    MNK/PUP: Martial Arts
    RNG: Rapid Shot/Snapshot/Velocity Shot


    DRG don't have any bonuses to attack speed(barring Spirit Surge, DRG's SP1 which shouldn't count. Could maybe get a trait called "Ferocity" or "Fervor" that gives a 5-10% Job Ability Haste? Either make it a trait or give DRG a job abilities which grant a bonus to attack speed that stack with Hasso! (DRK/SAM and SAM/DRK gets Hasso+Last Resport and all other melees get some kind of combination of attack speed boosts available to them but not DRG.
    It would be really cool if they did something like this and added a haste ja to drg. I was thinking like 5% ja haste to drg and 5% haste to wyvern. I know the wyvern is not very popular, but I wouldn't mind seeing more dmg come from it. Speaking of which, we need those all breath abilities buffed or lessen the resists. Also, give us a larger wyvern like the one in Campaign. Thanks.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player Babekeke's Avatar
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    Speaking of wyvern haste, how useful is the wyvern haste gear? is it worth using, or do we lose more than we gain, by losing a 5-hit etc?
    (0)

  10. #10
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    Mar 2011
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    There's no piece that has Pet Haste that we would also normally use for its other stats. I'm hopeful they add Pet Haste as a default stat to new gear(just like Haste is a default stats now on all new visible pieces of gear). As for right now, most pieces with pet haste also don't have much in terms of Multihit DA/TA/QA/STP which are vital stats for us. So like Regimen Gloves would have been good but they don't have any STP or anything so they're pointless for us. Pet Haste will never be a priority for DRG so unless they start adding it to new gear which has beneficial stats for the DRG primarily then it will never be sought after(because Wyverns are still extremely low DPS in an alliance <0.5% DPS of alliance). On lower content like Ark Angels though, my Wyvern hits for 200-300 when I copy Soul Voice buffs over with Spirit Link and it had me thinking he'd be doing pretty good damage if he also had 25% Pet Haste but of course with current options, I'd lose too much DPS on DRG.

    Still waiting for a Job Ability or Pet Command that's similar to Ranger's "Velocity Shot". It would be like "Enhances Attack, Accuracy and Attack Speed of Wyvern but renders breaths unusable." I talked about this in my "Muster" post a year ago. An ability like this would have the following awesome benefits:

    1) It would increase a Wyvern's DPS substantially.
    2) Since Breaths would be unusable, the Wyvern would spend less time readying a 50-120 damage Elemental Breath Attack on a boss or NM and instead continue to auto-attack which deals more damage in less time(breath attacks are inaccurate on NMs and only deal 300-400 when they land for full but in that time, the wyvern could have hit 2-3x with auto-attack for more!)
    3) Since Breaths are unusuable, the Wyvern has no avenue in which to lose the TP it gathers, this allows the DRG to use the oft forgotten, underutilized benefit of Spirit Link, to siphon half of the Wyvern's TP stores, thus enhancing the DRG's DPS by giving us another way to gain TP in a pinch.

    Under the effect of this ability, the wyvern would not use an Elemental Breath after a WS nor would it use a Remove Breath after a WS, nor would it Healing Breath after a spell at low HP. They could give us a way to override this and let us use a breath if we use the job ability Smiting Breath or Restoring Breath. But even if they extend the restriction of Breaths to even include not being able to use Smiting or Restoring Breath it will be fine. It would be easy to code, just give our Wyvern Amnesia under the effect of the JA for 3-5min and give it 15% Attack, +50-70 acc and +15-20% JA Haste maybe even throw in a decaying 25% Double Attack or a strong Store TP effect for extra love?
    (0)
    Last edited by Ophannus; 05-26-2014 at 04:18 AM.

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