Ukko's Fury DD Atma Combos

[wish12oz]

Sorry for the Mathletecism, but as you can see through this "Perfect Scenario" test, you can see that a 5-Hit's WS Frequency is Far too powerful to be undershot by a 6% increase to Critical Hit Damage. The only variable to this during an actual parse would be "Over-TPing" but I doubt that would be enough to cause more than 3% Data Flaw, much less 8.5%. Hell, Ill give you 5% lol but Im still not changing my Rose Strap+Tactical Mantle xD

What is this I dont even...........

At least compare the right things.
Look at the gear you have to use for a 5 hit, then look at the gear for the almost optimal 6 hit.

5 hit:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/205808
6 hit:
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/218925

To use the 5 hit you give up 9% DA, 3% critical hit rate, 22 STR, 15 DEX, 59 attack, 6 accuracy, 1% haste, and what you really gain is WSing every 10.5 seconds after making 5 attacks, instead of WSing every 12 seconds with 6 attacks. (or something to that effect, I forget the exact numbers and I cant seem to find where I wrote them down) The point is that you only gain about 17% damage moving from a 6 hit to a 5 hit, when you don't give up anything else, and you give up tons with Ukon to do it, so you're really only gaining about 8-9% damage like you said (in comparison to the old 6 hit). The problem is that everything you give up from the new 6 hit totals much more then an 8% damage increase. The DA and Crit rate alone that you're giving up total more then 8% damage, and then there's a bunch more extra stuff!

EDIT:::::::::::
This is also assuming you don't have to use Carbonara for the 5 hit, which I think you do, which is an increased loss of an extra 3 STR and 87 attack!
This also doesn't even cover the most important fact, with the 6 hit, you get to use armadaberk, which is nice to look at, unlike WAR AF3 body!

[Leonlionheart]

1. You're assuming you cannot over-tp, which would happen often since the high rate of DA and TA.
2. I'm not sure exactly what it would be, but even if you're using the 56:29:15 sample of NA:DA:TA it wouldn't exactly be that, since TA>DA>NA; the more TA you have, the less DA you have.
3. Also, it's every 7 seconds you spend 2 seconds WS'ing for a 6hit and every 8.75 seconds you spend 2 seconds WS'ing for a 5hit. So, simplified, its 9 seconds for 5hit and 10.75 seconds for a 6hit (At capped haste). The difference is completely minimal for a HUGE loss in stats.

[Yandaime]

Not really giving up too much honestly, or at least not as much as you suspect. Im not too interweb savy so forgive me for not having a nice, neat link but here goes.

Rose Strap
Ravager Orb
Zelus Tiara
Ravager Gorget
Brutal Earring
Ravager Earring
Ravager Body
Ravager Hands (I can switch to Timarli if I *REALLY* want to close out the Haste cap but I dont care unless im recieving additional haste, thats just me)
Hoard Ring
Rajas Ring
Tactical Mantle
Goading Belt
Ravager Legs
Ravager Feet.
and Yes, Carbonarra.

I will agree with you, in that getting +54 Store TP without using Carbonarra will cost cause a drawback, but as you stated, you still gain in the end. But that boils down to a philosophical debate about gear first, food second vs food first gear second and I dont care enough about the video game to go there. With this settup, I get the desired hit build with the least trade offs on gear, only losing 3% Double Attack where the Atheling Mantle would be and 9STR where the Ring would be and 10 STR where the Adaberk would be as well. So Im definitely losing some STR and Attack but our attack is so high as it is that I dont know of too many mobs where it makes a large difference or at least anything noticable during strictly TP gain. Not sure where your getting the 3% Critical Hit Rate however, since in Abyssea, dDex is pretty much capped by default altho I think you meant Damage and that was just a typo anyway. This whole things is washed out for WS but thats a given. I mean honestly at the end of the day I might be full of it anyway cuz with Apoc Atma and our really high DA together, we get TP in 3 or 4 Attack rounds on Average anyway, so whats the point? lol I just like to point out the math on equal situations sometimes is all which was 6hit vs 5hit with a difference in Critical Hit Damage.
And hey, if I wanted to cap my Attack, I can simply bypass the gear/food and just lug my BRD mule around LOL

[Leonlionheart]

Edit: lol oops wrong thread :<

[Leonlionheart]

Not really giving up too much honestly, or at least not as much as you suspect. Im not too interweb savy so forgive me for not having a nice, neat link but here goes.

Your "equal situations" are still wrong though, and there are too many factors that you don't account for.

[Yandaime]

Hmmmm I will admit I had not considered the WS Animation and I should have cuz Ukko's Fury has a very heavy animation. Ill have to run the tests more closely. Point withdrawn

[wish12oz]

Not really giving up too much honestly, or at least not as much as you suspect.

To use the 5 hit you give up 9% DA, 3% critical hit rate, 22 STR, 15 DEX, 59 attack, 6 accuracy, and 1% haste in gear, AND lose another 87 Attack and 3 STR from being required to use carbonara as opposed to red curry bun.

I can't even begin to understand how you say this is "Not a lot"

And seriously, I posted links to gear sets, if you don't understand where crit rate +3 comes from, all you gotta do is look at the links, it was not a typo. Claymore grip is win, especially when you run around with +70% crit damage. Your bard mule will not cap your attack on anything that matters, even if you used double minuet (which is stupid, marches are vastly superior) and cast dia2 on everything.

[Yandaime]

idk if you've looked at my set, but I will say again, Im only missing 3% Double Attack (not talking about the other stats listed, I already know about those) I don't know where that 9 is coming from. If I were missing all of those stats during WS, that would be a totally different Animal, but I find it hard to believe it makes too much of a difference while building TP, or if it does, you would need the aid of a Computer to see it, at which point, you are doing too much. Again, if you check the set I listed, you'll see that with using a different food, you can easily get a 5-hit without sacrificing anything more than a Ring, a Back Piece and a Grip. Haste is still capped, the Double Attack drops 3% but all in all not much has changed as far as building TP.
I'm getting out of it anyway not here to step on anyone's toes, just discussing my Opinion which I am now reconsidering because of Ukko's long Animation. And Ooops about the Claymore Grip, I confused it with Brave Grip very sorry about that. But while were on the Topic, I have been seeing a few WARs using Zahak's Mail instead of E Body/Ravagers any thoughts on Zahak's Mail? And yes, Leon the Fazheluo set is nice but I really don't like that Hat.. omg Rabbit Ears.. well mostly I'm just avoiding it because the crafters on this server are insane if they think I'm buying that set for a Total of 5.4 Mil :/

[Leonlionheart]

Berserk up, the difference is minimal between the two sets in terms of DPS.

Berserk down, however, the difference becomes quite large as you lose tons of attack, lowering pDIF which plays a large roll in DPS, since it multiplies damage by 0.0~2.0 When you have 500 Attack, and the mob has 600 defense, you're only doing 83.33% damage. However with 750 attack when the mob has 600 defense, you're now doing 1.25% damage. With RCB you should be reaching 750ish attack w/o any JA or Stalwarts on a 6hit set. So the DPS lost in TP rounds doesn't make up for the 8% addition from WS rounds.

[wish12oz]

Berserk up, the difference is minimal between the two sets in terms of DPS.

I never notice when I give up 182 attack either, thats so minmal, I bet it only increase damage like 1%.