Thread: Delve 1.0

Originally Posted by Demonjustin

The reason why is because this expansion took more of an Abyssea like stance when it came to raising the cap, increasing our levels in increments rather than all at one time. If all of Abyssea were an expansion together and had done put the cap at 99 from the start it wouldn't have been any different because half the gear would have been in the upper 70s and lower 80s while Heroes would've been focused on 90s. Adoulin came out with Delve which was bad originally because of the 119 cap it originally gave, finally we caught up to that point with the rest of the content but originally it did start at 100~110 gear with the Coalition gear and original Delve gear. Only recently have we hit this level of 119 becoming a commonality. The reason that the other expansions didn't actually outdated their own gear is they were all basically made for level 75 cap, this expansion raised it's cap in the middle of it and created new gear at that level.

That is one of the problems with this expansion, in order to get the best gear at the time we had to take it through the mezzoniting process, in order to get the best gear for aby you took it through the Magian trial process, one is being upgraded the other is not. I have a valid point here, they should either let us finish the upgrading process through mezonniting to take our delve 1 gear to the 119 cap or let us recycle it for plasm. It's simple, and I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Originally Posted by Stompa

If you have a simulacrum you can take it back and have it dismantled to get your components back. I would like to see a new "de-mezzotinting" system which does the same for delve gear. When I put around 30m gil of Airlixir +2s into my Mikinaak and Bokwus armor sets, I spent that money because I thought lvl 110 was going to be useful for a long time. Now those very expensive armors are in deep storage and I can't use them in events. It would be nice to be able to de-mezzotint them and get my airlixir +2s back, so I can use those expensive items on the new higher level delve gear instead.
This is different to augmenting skirmish gear because you know you are basically gambling when you put loads of +2 skirmish stones into an item. With Delve armors we were not gambling, we were following a linear upgrade path which cost many millions of gil, and we did that so that we could have useful armors, not knowing that stronger armors would soon appear at a cost of just a few thousands sparks, ie. free. So it would be nice if SE made de-mezzotinting the same as dismantling simulacra, in which you can get your component items returned to you. I am not optimistic about my Mikinaak or Bokwus ever getting upgrades higher than 110, so it would be nice if I could get the airlixirs back since the whole upgrade process was a waste of money, now that lvl 110 armors are <Too weak.>

Originally Posted by predatory

Not at all, the posts you pointed to were about time to do content, and my suggestion to SE had nothing to do with time, it was all about gil consumed for items that were outdated after people spent millions of gil making them. If it were just about time you wouldn't have seen me whining about them. Did you see any mention of the coalition gear or skirmish gear being outdated? No because all those take to make are time. What I was talking about was the gear that costs virtually millions of gear that are worthless now. So no my other posts didn't betray me at all, if I were QQing because it took time to build them, then your reply would be vailid

Time is money. Time is points, plasm, ichor, cruor, bayld, etc. You spent millions on a bow. Someone else spent years waiting for a hat to drop from Dynamis back in the day. At least your goal of upgrading that bow was a sure thing. Random drops never are.

Besides, you really should have known what was coming. You should have realized the path SE was setting us on. Gear isn't supposed to last you for years anymore. You're not supposed to get emotionally attached to a piece anymore. It's totally your choice whether you max your upgrades out right now or save your resources for what's coming next. At least you have real options now unlike in the past.

Originally Posted by predatory

Not at all, the posts you pointed to were about time to do content, and my suggestion to SE had nothing to do with time, it was all about gil consumed for items that were outdated after people spent millions of gil making them. If it were just about time you wouldn't have seen me whining about them. Did you see any mention of the coalition gear or skirmish gear being outdated? No because all those take to make are time. What I was talking about was the gear that costs virtually millions of gear that are worthless now. So no my other posts didn't betray me at all, if I were QQing because it took time to build them, then your reply would be vailid

so make time to farm gil back via Dynamis/Salvage, problem solved. Delve gear doesnt involve any gil to be made, it was YOUR decision to go to the AH and buy the airlixirs to upgrade it instead of in YOUR OWN words: "make time to farm the plasm".

Originally Posted by Stompa

Re; the lvl 110 Mikinaak Bokwus Manibohzo armors, we were never told that "these armors will not continue to upgrade in future version updates." SE never said that basically "to mezzotint these armors will cost you 30m gil, the armors will be useful for about six weeks and then skirmish and sparks gear will arrive and your 30m armors will get laughed at in events. Don't waste your gil on these delve armors." They should have said that, because for many players who do not buy gil or spend 24/7 playing FFXI, 30m gil is quite a lot of money, especially if (like me) you famously /random low numbers on all the valuable gil drops in events.
Predatory's example of Magians armors is a good one, because magian weapons scaled up gradually with future version updates that added new trials and higher levels for your item. Magians were not released with a finished lvl99 completed weapon available, it happened gradually. I myself assumed that Mikinaak and Bokwus armors were the same, and future updates would increase the power of these armor sets to be in line with whatever ilvl SE had decided to increase to. The effort and cost of the Delve lvl 110 armors was so high that I never assumed they would just be junk gear in six weeks after I finished them.
Also re; "gear isn't supposed to last you for years anymore" that is not true if as SE have said lvl 119 is the end of the road, that means your Reforged armors will be relevant for a long time. My issue is that SE made these really expensive 110 armors a year ago and never told us that they would stay 110 or that we would be smarter if we saved our 30m to invest in lvl 119 Reforged. If they had said that, I would have not wasted my time or money. So de-mezzotinting our gimped 110 armors to get the airlixir+2s back would be a solution to a problem that most players could not have predicted.

Oh come on. As soon as they started in on item levels the writing was on the wall. The only people who couldn't have guessed what was in store were the ones who lived in a purely FFXI-centric bubble. It should have been obvious they were copying the WoW model and in that gear comes hard and fast and doesn't last very long. What should also have been a clue was how quickly and brutally they murdered the vast majority of pre-Adoulin gear. If that wasn't them sending a message that there are no sacred cows anymore then what was it?

Look I've spent a bundle on augmenting gear too, mostly due to my own insecurities. If SE created a refund system I'd certainly take advantage of it, but IMO you should never invest in a piece of gear and expect to get anything other than the stats that come on it.

Also, I am not going to be counting on 119 being the end of anything. I think that'd be highly foolish at this point. The 119 sets may last longer than 110-117, but they'll eventually be replaced. Prepare yourself for it now, so we don't have to go through this all over again next year.

Originally Posted by Stompa

Ah yes. "What should also have been a clue was how quickly and brutally they murdered the vast majority of pre-Adoulin gear. "

Except that the main armors from pre-Adoulin are now level 119 !!! AF, Relic, Empy armor (soon) are all lvl 119. So please explain your logic to an ignorant commoner like me, how is an armor that is ONE YEAR OLD like my Mikinaak Set, and which cost me millions of gil, how is that armor stuck at level 110 when AF that is ten years old is now shiny level 119. And skirmish got level up to 119 in recent updates. Everything except our Delve armor sets, which just sits there at level 110 like a big golden pig.

The main armors are 119? No, not even close, only 3 sets for each job are upgraded and that's because those sets are special iconic sets for the jobs. I could list of tons of gear that's not only harder to get than those but were much more common than any of those pieces that were never upgraded, one easy goto thing to bring up would be the Pulse Bodies. None of the glowing gear got any upgrades despite their popularity(Mekira, Heka's, and Toci's were all extremely popular) and that's without mentioning any of the other 99 content. The only things that were upgraded from 99 to item levels are Artifact, Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean items. These items are and were truly special, that's their reason for being upgraded, they're the exception not the rule by any means.

As for Mikinaak, it's not special, just another piece in an ocean of gear.

You must agree that it is completely random, and nobody except Nostredamus could predict that SE would invent level 110 Delve armors, give us the option of spending months farming them and 30m gil upgrading them, then just abandon those armors at level 110 while suddenly deciding to make AF, Relic, Empy, Skirmish armors level 119.

Except that I don't agree. The only ilevel gear to be upgraded by trading in an older version of itself is Skirmish, that was random but could be seen coming from the example set by the fact you could do the same with weapons. Delve gear had no example of such a thing, in fact it had a large level gap between it's end gear and it's starting gear with no way to bridge that gap, something Skirmish never had.

And these armors don't cost 30m to upgrade either.

You never tried for a rare augment like 2% Double Attack or 30(?) MAB, augments could easily cost much more than 30M if unlucky and I know people who spent a lot more than that on augments only to have their augments wiped when the +1 came out and they upgraded their gear. The Skirmish gear was no different in that respect except the base piece was upgraded rather than a new piece being released, asking it to be like Skirmish would mean upgrading your gear to 119 but those wonderful augments you got through Airlixirs? All gone, wiped in the process.

In all honesty buying the new 119 gear and upgrading it isn't really all too different from what people doing Skirmish are having to do. You need a ton of Plasm? Well the KI in Skirmish is stupidly rare, I think doing 2 runs of Tojil would be faster than doing the runs needed in Skirmish to get a KI unless you're lucky. The amount of +2s you need compared to originals? Oh, double the +2s, seems fair since the prices on stones are now quite a bit higher too compared to their counterparts. If you compare the two the only really meaningful difference is the fact your new Xaddi gear isn't the same exact gear as your old Mikinaak, it looks different and it has different base stats.

Originally Posted by Camiie

Oh come on. As soon as they started in on item levels the writing was on the wall. The only people who couldn't have guessed what was in store were the ones who lived in a purely FFXI-centric bubble. It should have been obvious they were copying the WoW model and in that gear comes hard and fast and doesn't last very long. What should also have been a clue was how quickly and brutally they murdered the vast majority of pre-Adoulin gear. If that wasn't them sending a message that there are no sacred cows anymore then what was it?

Look I've spent a bundle on augmenting gear too, mostly due to my own insecurities. If SE created a refund system I'd certainly take advantage of it, but IMO you should never invest in a piece of gear and expect to get anything other than the stats that come on it.

Also, I am not going to be counting on 119 being the end of anything. I think that'd be highly foolish at this point. The 119 sets may last longer than 110-117, but they'll eventually be replaced. Prepare yourself for it now, so we don't have to go through this all over again next year.

Unlike the WoW model (and yes I have a level capped Panda warrior), FFXI put upgrade paths on Magian gear (something WoW does not do), there's upgrade paths on delve gear too, why is it so hard for you to comprehend that people would assume they would be able to continue upgrading delve gear to cap?

Originally Posted by Stompa

Ah, my pet troll is back.
As usual you randomly pick lines out of my post, and you try to find some way to start an argument.

Disagreeing on someone on many things = trolling them. Replying in sections rather than an entire post at once = randomly picking out lines of your post.

A good example of this;

"The main armors are 119? No, not even close, only 3 sets for each job are upgraded and that's because those sets are special iconic sets for the jobs. I could list of tons of gear that's not only harder to get than those but were much more common than any of those pieces that were never upgraded, one easy goto thing to bring up would be the Pulse Bodies."

Only 3 sets for each job? Only? WTF. Thats a lot of armor and you call it "only".

Compared to the amount of gear overall at 99 yes it's a small number in my opinion, especially when you think about the fact that it's only 3 sets for each job, as in it's not Salvage, VW, NNI, Meebles, and Limbus gear all upgraded to 119 totaling in around 6 sets of gear for each job.

As for the rest of that nonsense, "special iconic" etc. not really, these were practical working armors, for functional use. My Ravager's Set+2 which I farmed in mid 2010, was my main WAR set every day for three years. And that is one of the armors I mentioned in the post you attacked for no reason. Empy armor that will soon be lvl 119.
Also THF relic gloves+2, I used those a lot. Smn relic set+2, used that a lot. Whm AF 4/5 with a Nobles tunic, used that set a lot. Whm empy set+2, used that a lot. War empy set+2, used that a lot. Etc.etc.

Did I say they weren't used? No, I never did, I mean I even use my Estoqueur's set to this day. That doesn't change the fact they're special sets, when I say they're iconic I don't mean they're little vanity sets like the chocobo suits, I mean they're sets that are designed specifically for that job with a visual design which is similar to their design they've been given throughout Final Fantasy. For example my RDM doesn't look like a traditional RDM with most gear, yet my Warlock's/Atrophy, Duelist's/Vitivations, and Estoqueur's sets all come with a visual design that represents RDM, when wearing that gear I look like an actual RDM rather than a common person wearing a robe or gambison. The AF/Relic/Empyrean are all special pieces of gear in a way none of the other gear was, so it was a different story.

So your argument that what I said was wrong, when I said basically that some of the main old armors have been upgraded to 119, your argument is BS. That won't stop you trying to weasel around and wriggle around the facts, though. You were never trying to make any valid points anyway, just trying to distract from the points I made by trying to pick little holes in them, even though I made perfectly valid points.

Only a few pieces of Relic were used before being reforged, Empyrean was used widely, but that doesn't mean it was the main gear because there's a lot more than just those that were used. I'm not avoiding facts, just pointing out what I see to be inaccurate statements or exaggerations about what was upgraded to 119.

Originally Posted by predatory

Unlike the WoW model (and yes I have a level capped Panda warrior), FFXI put upgrade paths on Magian gear (something WoW does not do), there's upgrade paths on delve gear too, why is it so hard for you to comprehend that people would assume they would be able to continue upgrading delve gear to cap?

Magian? You mean the system that SE abandoned at level 99 when Adoulin was released? Delve? Where the upgrades exist just to get your gear to the displayed item level? At what point were you promised or was it implied that you would have an infinite upgrade path? If you assumed it, that's totally on you.

Originally Posted by Camiie

Magian? You mean the system that SE abandoned at level 99 when Adoulin was released? Delve? Where the upgrades exist just to get your gear to the displayed item level? At what point were you promised or was it implied that you would have an infinite upgrade path? If you assumed it, that's totally on you.

So you're totally against them upgrading delve 1.0 and would rather toss that shit then upgrade it if they actually put a system in place right? Because that is what you're arguing against. I bet if they upgraded it tomorrow you'd be the first person standing in line to get it done. I'm trying to offer something constructive for the community and you're trying to tear it down. Well good for you